I'll get the ball rolling then.
28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[ b ] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one--
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou are not dead. Thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.
Epimenides - "Cretica"
Poem to Zeus and quoted by Paul, who was a Jewish and Greek scholar, in the Bible. So I take it that Paul is telling us Zeus is the one true God and we are his offspring?http://www.johnlmoore.com/titustwo.htmhttp://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=809
Christians and Jews were not the first to suggest a living God. The fact that the Greek pantheon and culture played such an important part in the lives and culture of the Jews and early Christians, who drew heavily on both cultures to form Christianity is non-debatable.
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Is this confirmation that Zeus is the one true God of the Bible? I don't recall the Hebrew God ever accepting worship of any idol.
As is always the case, we should establish context for what you quoted. In verses 22 thru 27
, Paul sets the whole argument up. His mission was to evangelize even the Pagans, and, as the chapter goes on to reveal, his argument won many of them over.
It is clear that you completely missed the point Paul was making. He was speaking to a council of elders and, noting their Pagan idols, delivered a speech in an effort to evanglize and show them that their worship of some "unknown God" was misguided. He proceeded to suggest that though they were praying to an unknown, false God, seemingly trying to "feel" their way toward this god... the one true God is actually within our reach and "not far from each of us." He used their own inscriptions/verses against them as an example. He in no way whatsoever validated
those verses and claimed them as true.
In my opinion, the reason Christians get so offended at this notion is because of their fierce competition with Paganism for two millennium now.
In all seriousness: The reason any Christian would be and should be highly offended at any suggestion that we effectively practice Paganism is because throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament, Paganism is described as possibly THE most offensive thing any of us could ever practice. The God of the bible loathes
Paganism, and it should be obvious to anyone who even so much as skims through the bible in cursory fashion. Page after page, verse after verse, chapter and book after chapter and book, worshiping idols and Pagan gods is utterly and completely condemned
by the God of the bible. I mean, my goodness, He even went so far as to dedicate 2
of the 10 Commandments toward forbidding Pagan practices.
And I don't know how in the world you've concluded that Christians have somehow manufactured our disdain for Paganism (the theme of your argument is we practice Paganism, yet we fight against it and compete against it) -- when Paganism was clearly and completely forbidden by God, thousands of years before the first Christian ever walked the planet. All Christians are doing is simply following through
with what their God commanded well before Christ was born.
And by the way, no Christian today believes we are in any kind of "competition" with Paganism, per sé. And that's because we don't give Paganism a shred of credibility. We are no more competing against Paganism as we are competing against so-called Pastafarianism.
I meean, it isn't enough to restructure all of your holy days to coincide and compete
The coinciding and "competing" was structured a long time ago when Christianity was young and frail, and Paganism was rampant in culture. I already went to great lengths to explain WHY Christian celebrations were moved to coincide with Pagan celebrations. It was done out of concern for the Christians that the Pagans were trying to woo back over to their "team" so to speak. It was an act of compassion and concern, not a silly effort to one-up the "competition." Incidentally, there was a real, true competition going on, but it wasn't a game. The competition was for the future of people's souls in the afterlife.
but you also had to demonize their religion.
Demonize is an excellent word and very befitting, considering that Paganism involved many entities that could be described as demons. However, it wasn't the Christians that "demonized" Paganism. It was already denounced and demonized, like I said, well before any Christians existed.
Satan is awfully similar to Samael
Is this one of your supporting arguments? I looked around a little, I see that Samael is a character in ancient Jewish lore
. There are some similarities to Satan, but I don't see anything worth taking too seriously.
A lot of material there. I see where he said that several teachings in Proverbs were very similar to several teachings on ancient Sumerian tablets. I have 2 thoughts on this. First and foremost, this isn't a critical issue regardless of the actual facts, because your claim deals with Christian beliefs... people that follow Christ and His teachings. Christians live under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant. However, still, this is an interesting topic. My 2nd thought is is, no one that I'm aware of, ever claimed that Solomon (or anyone else for that matter) took dictation directly from God, when he/they recorded Scripture. So it goes to follow that Solomon could -- in his superior wisdom -- have weighed any prevailing tenet or proverb in his own mind and determined whether it was sound, Godly teaching, and then supported it by repeating it. In other words, it's not completely necessary or even suggested by anyone, that all of Proverbs is exclusive, unique, word-for-word dictation from the lips of God Himself, so Solomon--in his ultimate, God-given, superior wisdom--repeating and validating something he heard from someone else, is perfectly ok.
Ok, so the ball is rolling now. But insofar as your claim is concerned... the ball is rolling up a very steep hill, and quickly losing momentum. What else do you have on this, please sir and thank you!
I saw by the way that Samael is also the name of a heavy metal band from Switzerland. Might I venture a guess that you listen to their music and did a little web-surfing to find out what their band name was all about?