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Postby rath » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:05 am

blackvault wrote: America was not founded under a Socialist movement, nor should it be one.


blackvault wrote:"great" nations with "great" power have come and gone over the years, and wouldn't you know, they operated off of a Socialist / Communist agenda. Still want Obama to "fundamentally change" our country to Socialism, because "it's what we need at the time?" I don't think so.




Bla Bla .... Bla Bla ..... Bla

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


You all act as if America is not neck deep in socialism & socialist regulation already.


The USA already has a socialist government, & always has had a socialist government.

Socialist programs in the USA!!!

- The U.S Military (Paid by the Government using tax dollars)

- The National Aeronautics and Space Administration ( NASA )

- The Federal Bureau Of Investigations ( FBI )

- The Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA )

- The National Security Agency/Central Security Service ( NSA )

- The U.S police department.

- The U.S fire department.

- The United States Postal Service (U.S. Postal Service)

- The US Mint

- The U.S Federal Reserve

- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. In-fact, most Welfare programs are tax-funded welfare programs.

& Other socialist activity's.

- Surveillance & oversight of the press.

- Surveillance of Americans by the U.S government ....... Example. ( Internet surveillance. )

- The production of U.S propaganda films & T.V Programs.

- Incarceration of Political prisoners ( Julian Assange & Bradly manning )

- Subsidised manufacturing industry.

- Subsidised farming & Agriculture programs.

So Forth, So On ... etc ect.
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Postby capricorn » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:09 am

Aa much as I hate to admit this one Rath, you are absolutely right... although I would not say we always had a socialistic gov't. The Dems helped create that one.
but we still dont need your gigantic font!
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Postby blackvault » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:19 am

rath wrote:You all act as if America is not neck deep in socialism & socialist regulation already.

Actually, I don't disagree either, and that's kind of my point to the above. Not sure how you missed my points about the effects of the socialistic programs already 'on the books' here in the good ol' US of A, but regardless, let me comment on one other thing.

I don't agree that ALL the programs you listed make us a "socialist" government and prove we've always been. That's not true. And I think Capricorn is also correct, we haven't ALWAYS had this form of government. We've adopted certain regulations, laws, etc., and in the past 4 years, have increased them 3,000 fold that put us on par with many others who went down the same path, but failed.

My point? This current path will only get worse. There are quite a few examples in our history that prove my point with other countries trying the same thing. Printing currency to pay for these types of program, then they show a weaker value for their currency, but print and borrow more anyway. Sound familiar?

Let me also say this. I do not think that tomorrow (maybe it's wishful thinking) we will have the Greece situation here in America. I don't think we will turn into a fiery ash of looting, riots and rebellion overnight. What I am trying to say is if we continue this path, we won't be far off from that.

That's my point.
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Postby greeney2 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:45 am

If you really want to get confused over the definition of socialism, read up about it, also see links to the history of socialism, democratic socialism. Not exactly a simple thing to discribe, and to compare to the vision of socialiam, in oppressive communist countries, having no human rights. There are many many definitions and kinds of socialism. I think for the sake of arguement here is the concept of complete and total socialism vs the total loss of capitalism. Thus a system of total government control, decisions as apposed to your total freedom to own a business or anything for that matter. That whatever wealth you are capible of making, it must be spread to any who do not have that ability. everything is owned by the state, and you are told where you can go, live, or even work.

I think an argument can be made that all employment is a form of communism, socialism, and dictorship all in one, if you boil it down. Big companies like mine developed "problem solving teams" where people from all levels participated. They figured out some people possesed higher skill levels, including far higher than the job codes they worked in. Others with lesser skill levels could be brought up in skill, by everyone sharing their knowledge, and coming togather to solve problems. It was not uncommon for higher skill level welders or machinists to solve problems, even graduate engineers could not figure out. So they shared knowledge in ways could be considered intellectual socialism. People who had some trade secrets of their own(and were the only ones who could do some jobs) now were sharing that process. You no longer owned what was in you brain, you were expected to be a team player and share your expertise, that before was you "aces in the hole", to guaretee the company really needed to keep you. So much in fact, little special tools they had stored away, and the concept, "I ain't gonna teach that newhire nothing" fell into a socialist way of sharing knowledge. Problem was that these companies were not bound to consider input from the floor level people the same as propriatary property, used our trade secrets, to bid out jobs giving them the trade secrets we developed as workers. Some of our processes were completly unknown outside our company. The idea they picked our blue collar brains for the knowledge we had, and white collar and give what our workers developed was socialism at its worst.

I would not exactly discribe traditional social security and medicare as welfare programs. Many of the program listed are government funded programs, that alone does not make them or us a socialist society, every country has government programs.
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:50 pm

Statistics and charts can be and are made to manipulate the perception of truth all the time.
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