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Secession petitions filed in 20 states

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Postby capricorn » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:27 pm

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Postby BloodStone » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:57 pm

I know I'm ready.... :thumbup:













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Postby En-Lugal » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:30 pm

I signed the one for my state. :thumbup:
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Postby blackvault » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:31 pm

I find this a pretty amazing thing unfolding in quite a few states.

This is what I will say about it. You have to have some amazing PASSION for your cause and beliefs to want to secede from the United States of America. And this is what I will say to those who are gunnin' for this in their respective states... it's the United States of America that made that passion inside you. It's the United States of America that offers us the greatness to speak out AGAINST our leaders without the fear of repercussion. And it's the greatness of the United States of America that allows you to feel the way you do, without intimidation.

Instead of spending the time and energy trying to secede, because we all know it won't happen (Texas has been trying well before the 2012 election), put that passion and desire into something more worthwhile - like moving our country back to the ideals of our founding fathers and returning America to who and what it should be. Don't start over - give the United States of America a FRESH beginning. Socialism - is NOT America. It doesn't work, and it's not who we are. If you support it - GREAT! Don't bother trying to secede from the Union, just leave. You're free to do so. But we are cultivating a society, and a youth, that is spoiled. They have lost their American values that make us great, and they wait for their food stamps, their welfare, and their free stuff in the mail. Meanwhile, the country around them is going more broke trying to coddle them. The time of handouts SHOULD be over. As a country, we simply can't do it anymore. Some will need it - I know that. Some deserve it - I know that too. But I know MANY, and arguably MOST, probably don't. But they will take it anyway.

I learned something this election season that I know will upset a lot of you by saying this, but I have to say it. There are a TON of people out there who are just straight out misinformed. They aren't bad people, they aren't "wrong", they aren't ignorant in a disrespectful way, they are just, MISINFORMED. I don't care who you voted for in the election - I really don't. Some of my rants and raves showed my lack of support for our current President, but I always supported either side. if you had a rational reason for voting for the one you were voting for, I gave you a digital high-five and a hug.

But in the past month alone, do you know how many people I tried to call out on blatant lies, and misinformation that they loved to tout to their friends, family and followers? Would you be surprised that on MULTIPLE occasions those touting their lies would simply delete their entire post after being proven wrong? Not wanting to say "ooops" not trying to say, "Well, maybe I am wrong on this one, but..." nothing like that. Simply deleted the post in its entirety. Why is this important? Because those images, in some cases, would have hundreds of THOUSANDS of shares and comments. Many would forward and share, and never be challenged. They didn't know it was wrong, false, or a lie... they believed it to be true. And no one bothered to tell them otherwise. How many people saw stuff like this, or was effected by it? You couldn't logon to any social network without seeing a Communist poster of Obama, a Rich Man know nothing Romney, a Jesus-like apparition of Ron Paul, etc. All that crap tells us nothing about the people, but cultivates thoughts and emotions based on nothing. Then there were those "quotes" attributed to both parties and politicians, saying and doing things that weren't necessarily true. Some, well, they were true. So forward away! But many, were not. Out of context, lies, and malicious misdirection - most of which went unchallenged. I mean seriously, who has the time to fight that all off? This means that viral (in the literal sense) marketing, even if it was blatant lies, was OK to so many people out there because NO ONE bothered to check if it was true in the first place. "This one is funny." PRESS FORWARD. "Ooooh, this makes the 'other guy' look bad..." PRESS SHARE.

I feel ON BOTH SIDE OF THE AISLE, there are some people out there who have no idea what they are talking about. And even moreso, shouldn't be voting. They proudly cast their ballot, for whomever they chose, and yet - they can't spell "deficit," have no idea what "socialism" is, are completely clueless about social issues, and ignore the problems facing us today like dollar amounts we can't even count to.

Before you jump all over me, I am the first to say, that in regards to myself, I am not saying *I* am 'right' or have all the 'right' answers. I take criticism, and love opposing views. It pushes me harder to understand not only the world around me, but myself as well. I have a lot to learn about our great country, and I am far from all-knowing about what we should or shouldn't do.

For those who want to secede, put that passion into educating your neighbors. Stop your friends and family from forwarding, sharing and preaching the FALSE rhetoric about politicians and political party's (again, both sides.) Stop the lies, and let people make up their mind based on their wants, their own ideals, and their morality that was instilled into them from being born and raised, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Because if we can do that, at least the majority of us, I believe with all my heart that we would have a different, and much better, country we ALL live in. And the leader WE choose, will truly be the CHOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

THAT is the greatest hope you can give for our future. Not seceding, not rebelling, but by educating, and taking this country BACK to the ideals it was founded under. Not Republican ideals, not Democratic ideals, but AMERICAN ideals.
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Postby Butcher » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:50 pm

I am not now nor have I ever backed Obama. I voted 3rd party because (I hate to adMitt it) I have issues with Romney's religion (nuff said) I feel we need to stay the course, see if 12/21/12 happens, :crazy: if not, either look into impeaching him or electing a different type of party platform. Maybe a party that uses...maths and sciences... :clap: My 2 cents...here's the change ;)
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Postby Nigfis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:59 pm

blackvault wrote:.......... Socialism - is NOT America. It doesn't work, and it's not who we are. If you support it - GREAT! Don't bother trying to secede from the Union, just leave. You're free to do so.
But we are cultivating a society, and a youth, that is spoiled. They have lost their American values that make us great, and they wait for their food stamps, their welfare, and their free stuff in the mail. Meanwhile, the country around them is going more broke trying to coddle them. The time of handouts SHOULD be over. As a country, we simply can't do it anymore. Some will need it - I know that. Some deserve it - I know that too. But I know MANY, and arguably MOST, probably don't. But they will take it anyway.
Sounds a bit 'My way or the highway' John.
Shouldn't America be whatever it is required to be in the circumstances?
Socialism is not the great satan you paint it to be. I would posit that, with as many as one in six Americans now in poverty, this is not the time to start a war against the sick and unemployed. This is the time to look after your fellow Americans, not to start to isolate the have-nots even further from the have's.


.............

I feel ON BOTH SIDE OF THE AISLE, there are some people out there who have no idea what they are talking about. And even moreso, shouldn't be voting. They proudly cast their ballot, for whomever they chose, and yet - they can't spell "deficit," have no idea what "socialism" is, are completely clueless about social issues, and ignore the problems facing us today like dollar amounts we can't even count to.

You would deny a whole class of fellow Americans the right to vote? Fascism much John? ;)

For those who want to secede, put that passion into educating your neighbors. Stop your friends and family from forwarding, sharing and preaching the FALSE rhetoric about politicians and political party's (again, both sides.) Stop the lies, and let people make up their mind based on their wants, their own ideals, and their morality that was instilled into them from being born and raised, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Because if we can do that, at least the majority of us, I believe with all my heart that we would have a different, and much better, country we ALL live in. And the leader WE choose, will truly be the CHOICE OF THE PEOPLE.


Would the first logical step, in changing the way America 'is' just now, not be to stop the insane amount of spending the parties have to do to get their wo/man into office?
I wonder how much money is spent on elections, compared to the cost of welfare? and how far that money would go if used for easing the pain of poverty, for instance.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:38 pm

Nigfis, one fact is very true, the amount they spend on elections is hideous and mind boggling, but it is still a drop in the bucket compared to welfare.

When you look at the map of the states doing this they are the states that usually are the Republican states, however his has nothing to do with it. If you want to count numbers in poverty and welfare, it is not unique to strictly Democrats, nor Democratic states. Welfare is not just Democrats, and all Republicans are not the rich and famous privileged. Democrats are not the peasants, and Republicans the royals if that is what you are envisioning. Both are mixed in income levels, and other demographics, usually many blue collar workers are Democrats, but not in all cases.

No time in history since the civil war has such a message been sent to Washington of disapproval of not only Obama, but of the Congress overall. This is much more a symbolic protest, however it does carry to potential to be a serious additional problem we do not need. This movement did not start on Election Day 2012, it has been a movement since Obama took office, and the disapproval of his than Democratic Congress running roughshawed over Republicans in Congress, locking them out of meetings, and violating our Constitution of States equal representation. This is a clear and loud message to Obama that, his economic bail did not put people back to work, his foreign policy a disaster, the debt, and 23M out of work. THAT WAS ALL BEFORE THE ELECTION! In the week after the election, the withheld Bengaze information is coming to light, and several great Generals are being thrown under the bus with a scandal. You couldn't write a better book about a President who tells Russia 'I'll have more flexibility after the election", and send another message to the middle east, the entire American military command is dishonorable, while Iran fires on a drone in international waters.
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Postby blackvault » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Nigfis wrote:Sounds a bit 'My way or the highway' John.
Shouldn't America be whatever it is required to be in the circumstances?
Socialism is not the great satan you paint it to be. I would posit that, with as many as one in six Americans now in poverty, this is not the time to start a war against the sick and unemployed. This is the time to look after your fellow Americans, not to start to isolate the have-nots even further from the have's.


Actually, no it doesn't. You did actually read my post, and not just read what you wanted to right? In America, you have the option to leave. And if you want to stay with socialist ideals - God bless ya, because as an American you are able to do so. But America was not founded under a Socialist movement, nor should it be one. The nation was founded on Capitalism, and the drive for success. The "American Dream" as many of us born here, and many who have emigrated here, have called it. But if you're successful, and you then are expected to coddle more of the people in our nation than others, why even bother to succeed? A socialist movement may not seem so detrimental now, even though I disagree, but look at the nation we are cultivating. We are cultivating a society that rather than working for their dreams, goals and aspirations, they simply are skating by with their handouts and free stuff from the Government.

Let's take for example Food Stamps:

Image


Steady incline through the years... then Bush added a bit over what was prior to him, but then look at the Obama years. Coincidence?

Here are two more for you:

Image


With the handouts, more people feel they can be on Food Stamps, and survive. The job graph shows that, "Hey, why look for a job? Food is given to me, and I can collect unemployment paid to me by the Feds, so I have a small income. I'll stay home with my Cheetos, Thank you!" Then, look at the deficit problem that Bush had, then look at the one Obama has. You don't find that all of this is connected in one way or another? This is the effect of a socialist mindset. Sorry... "great" nations with "great" power have come and gone over the years, and wouldn't you know, they operated off of a Socialist / Communist agenda. Still want Obama to "fundamentally change" our country to Socialism, because "it's what we need at the time?" I don't think so.

You say that my statements are above are starting a war against "the sick and unemployed". Interesting, because let me copy and paste what I already wrote:

Some will need it - I know that. Some deserve it - I know that too. But I know MANY, and arguably MOST, probably don't. But they will take it anyway.

I think that proves that I am focusing on the people that don't physically or mentally need the handout, but they take it anyway.

Nigfis wrote:You would deny a whole class of fellow Americans the right to vote? Fascism much John? ;)


Interesting. It never ceases to amaze me that people read into what they want, not actually what was written. Please re-read what I posted. I said they shouldn't be voting. I meant that. I never said we should have a "stupidity test" and all those who score below a certain level... shouldn't be allowed to vote. Yet, you reference a "whole class of fellow Americans" that I am omitting entirely from the vote. How you got that, is beyond me.

I'll give you a further example of what I mean. There were some propositions on my ballot this year, that I had no idea about. I knew roughly what they were about, but not the details. If I just punched a hole next to the one I thought was better, should I have done that without knowing fully what the heck they were even about? No, I shouldn't. So I left them blank, and voted for the ones I knew about. I saw the TV ads, I know what this group said and that group said, but I wasn't smart enough to vote on it - so I didn't. What I am saying is for those people who CLEARLY don't know ANYTHING about the Presidential nominees, except what they see on Facebook, propaganda "posters" people forward around, and misquoted TRASH, then they should leave the box BLANK. That's not warfare against a "whole class of fellow Americans" that's just asking the people who don't care enough to know anything to skip that box, or skip the vote entirely. Why is that raging war against humanity?

Let me make it simple. Should this lady vote?



She's so ignorant, she doesn't even know that Obama didn't give her that phone. Yet, whatever person, advertisement, propaganda email, Facebook post, whatever told her he did... to her... he did. (Source: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp) My point? How many people punched the ballot for Obama due to logic that was all based - on a lie, false advertisement or ignorance?

Nigfis wrote:Would the first logical step, in changing the way America 'is' just now, not be to stop the insane amount of spending the parties have to do to get their wo/man into office?
I wonder how much money is spent on elections, compared to the cost of welfare? and how far that money would go if used for easing the pain of poverty, for instance.


YAY... we agree on something. Why is it that enormous amounts of money is spent? Because as we learned this year, you HAVE to outdo and outspend your opponent with crazy attack ads, most of which, are so embellished they borderline an outright lie. ON BOTH SIDES. Of course ads are supposed to jab at the other, but come on, some of these SuperPAC's like MoveOn.org, putting out the trash they do, and it gets put on the air? And that's in addition to the money the campaigns spend? Yes, there should be a limit... I completely agree. And it will only get worse by 2016.
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Postby blackvault » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:51 pm

Added for archival purposes and discussion.

The Dailer Caller wrote:White House ‘secede’ petitions reach 675,000 signatures, 50-state participation

Less than a week after a New Orleans suburbanite petitioned the White House to allow Louisiana to secede from the United States, petitions from seven states have collected enough signatures to trigger a promised review from the Obama administration.

By 6:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, more than 675,000 digital signatures appeared on 69 separate secession petitions covering all 50 states, according to a Daily Caller analysis of requests lodged with the White House’s “We the People” online petition system.

A petition from Vermont, where talk of secession is a regular feature of political life, was the final entry.

Petitions from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas residents have accrued at least 25,000 signatures, the number the Obama administration says it will reward with a staff review of online proposals. (RELATED: Will Texas secede? Petition triggers White House review)

The Texas petition leads all others by a wide margin. Shortly before 9:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, it had attracted 94,700 signatures. But a spokesperson for Gov. Rick Perry said Tuesday afternoon that he does not support the idea of his state striking out on its own.

“Gov. Perry believes in the greatness of our Union and nothing should be done to change it. But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government,” according to a statement from the governor’s office.

A backlash Monday night saw requests filed with the White House to strip citizenship rights from Americans who signed petitions to help states secede.

And in a similar nose-thumbing aimed at Texas’ conservative majority, progressives from the liberal state capital of Austin responded Monday with a petition to secede from their state if Texas as a whole should decide to leave the Union.
Late Tuesday a second group of Texans, this one from Houston, lodged their own White House petition. Secession-minded Texans, they wrote, “are mentally deficient and [we] do not want them representing us. We would like more education in our state to eradicate their disease.”

Houstonian “Kimberly F” — The White House does not provide last names — submitted the petition. She told TheDC in an email that ”[w]e need both sides presented, or we all look like a bunch of fools.”

A group from El Paso, too, wants no part of an independent Texas. “Allow the city of El Paso to secede from the state of Texas,” their petition reads. “El Paso is tired of being a second class city within Texas.”

But smaller petitions like theirs are a political side show of a political side show. One effort, aimed at Missourians, called for a nationwide catered pizza party to celebrate when the Show Me State left the U.S.
States whose active petitions have not yet reached the 25,000 signature threshold include Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

Source: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/white ... z2CEiNlysM
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Something sticks out like a sore thumb on the graphs. Look at the Bush years, and divide the unemployment % into the deficit amount year by year, to see the ratio. Than do the same thing with the Obama years, and look how the ratio of unemployment % and deficit is dramatically higher. Also look at the same spikes in the food stamp numbers. The Worst Bush year the ratio is about 65 billion to each 1% of unemployment. The Obama years the worst year was a ratio of 141 billion for each 1% of unemployed.

Its costing us almost 3 times as much to manipulate the % of unemployment, or the actual numbers of unemployed people/percentages is grossly inaccurate.

Lets see a year chart for actual unemployed numbers of people, not some manipulated percentage, that hides what is true. Bar graphs are very telling when you understand how they show comparisons dramatically.
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