The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

Religion & Spirituality

The Bible and Homosexuality

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby humphreys » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:44 pm

greeney2 wrote:Stop trolling now Disson80r!


So unfair.

This is the last straw, I am with diss on this, I am leaving due to the fucked up biased moderating here. Have a good one guys.

If greeney - by far the biggest troll on the forum - ever stops being mod I will return. Diss did nothing wrong here, while I like Sandra she was way more insulting than him and did not get warned.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
User avatar
humphreys
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:51 pm
Location: Inside your head.

Postby khanster » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:38 am

at1with0 wrote:
Nope, just saying that if I know for a fact that I will resurrect in three days, laying down my "life" ain't much of a risk or sacrifice. If Jesus was to be completely annihilated and forever terminated upon his death, then yes that would be an actual sacrifice.




How can there be Love without Justice? God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself there; we have free will, we are not robots. We have the free will to reject God's love and hell is the separation from God. If we love God we do the best we can to obey his commandments, which become written on our hearts. Sin brings suffering into the world through the adversary Satan, the father of all lies. It is called spiritual warfare. God defeats Satan's plan through Jesus' death and resurrection. Jesus redeems us as the Lamb of God and we become whole, through Him. We repent and ask Jesus to come into our heart, become baptized and receive the Holy spirit. We keep our focus on Jesus so as not to stumble. Read about the parable of the sower.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

Sacrifices in the Old Testament were also symbolic of and pointing to the life of Jesus as when Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac to God and thus the covenant was established and predestined.

http://www.jesusanswers.com/christian/s ... rifice.htm

As Abraham was taking out his knife, his hands were trembling. He was about to sacrifice his son when heard the voice of God saying, “Abraham, Stop! Do not hurt your son. You have proven your faith and shown how much you love Me by willing to sacrifice your son for Me. Therefore, I shall bless you and your family, and through you, I shall bless all the nations on earth”. God also provided a lamb for the sacrifice. Abraham went home along with his son, and their hearts full of love and faith.


Hell is a choice you make...


“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened. ” ― C.S. Lewis
User avatar
khanster
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:18 am

Postby at1with0 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:53 am

You done pontificating? :Doh:

Do you believe that if I have sex with a dude that I am going to hell?

I am receptive to the statement "God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself there" but I don't think that is the doctrine; it sounds like your interpretation.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9183
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby orangetom1999 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:25 am

DIss0n80r ,

I have been posting in this "Bible and Homosexuality" thread asking unpopular questions about your religion.


You're not asking me unpopular questions about my religion. I don't think you can handle or deal with the answers but you are not going to ask me unpopular questions. Christianity has never been popular and for Christians/Believers to be concerned with the popular opinion and views means to me that they are now Ishmaelites.

I'll give you and example here...from your post DIss0n80r.

When it comes down to it, your kind are enemies of truth.


Oh...no..not at all. Like Humphreys and others ...you get it backwards. For you see DIss0n80r...Truth to us is spelled this way.

......Truth. Truth to you is spelled....truth. Notice the difference??

Truth to us is the name of a person..not a popular theme...which will change like the wind. This is in fact why you have great difficulty understanding anything we will post.

Until your soul is changed by His will ...with a good conscience towards God...you will never understand what we are saying. I merely make note of it.

You act civil as you're forced to be while doing your best to destroy others who never hurt you and conceal truth, but underneath you are irrational cowards who reveal your irrational ugliness when your lies are threatened.


This is not worthy of you...but it is Jerry Springer. Once again ..truth to us is "Truth". The difference to those who know is night and day...or another way of expressing it is a great gulf.

Oh..and disagreeing with someone is not destroying them..but it is drama. When you go to this extent you are doing here you are carrying on as if someone stole your candy. Not very mature. Mature people get over it...and go out and get their own candy and let others go their own way. What you are doing here is irrational and immature to boot.
You can do much better.

You are not good. You don't even understand what good is. You're violent and selfish and oppressive. You lie to yourselves, lie to each other, and stifle almost all our hopes of a bright and amazing future with your narrow petty cowardice.


Now in this you have it correct..I am not good. I am far worse than you. But I also know that you are not good as well. None of us out here are good. For we all deserve hell and damnation. All of us.

As to violent selfish and oppressive....that is a matter of debate..but most of what I see you doing here...is standard "Victimization " workings and that does not work with me. Also ...if you look to this world for a bright and amazing future...in anything you are going to be disappointed. I cannot imagine what you are thinking here ..as if this is some kind of entitlement.

If you want a bright and amazing future...you walk through this world and don't tell this world any of your business..for it is not their business. I should not have to tell you this. Maturity alone ..will clear this up..but you seem lacking in this..and more in entitlements here. You can do much better than this...emoting here is not getting it. Which is why you are being a drama queen here. Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!!!

Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, swallow another lie in your illusiln-based life, and then ban the fag for wanting answefs for his persecution, for the torment, for the years of doubt and confusion because it was part of your sick illusionary world to deny him, to deny him and mistreat him and make him regret who he was.


No victimization...we are not interested in yours or anyone else's victimization in this arena. If sex and sexuality is the very best you have to demand acceptance by others...no wonder you are lost and depressed. You have to possess a movie and television education to demand approval and acceptance of others based on sex and sexuality..when you should by intelligence alone ..know better.

I don't approve of certain heteros married and unmarried...either because they have only this fingerprint...their sex and sexuality. I think they are just as dumb too. You and others are not that special.

I keep saying ..only public education can naturally dumb a people down so far they no longer know the difference. And I mean hetero and homo both. Really dumb of them. Naturally dumb. Thinking people are not this naturally dumb..but emoting people are.

You life-deniers. You sad small liars full of fear. I'm glad if I offend you, glad if it gets to you to have the "Salt" rubbed in YOYR wounds for a change. Ban me.


Here you go again DIss0n80r...

For you see...you are talking about life...we are talking about "Life". Life once again is the name of a person to us. For He has many names...and these are just two of them. There is a big difference to the knowledgeable believer. Those who can see, hear, and understand...and some who can in fact see, hear, and understand are on these boards.

OH..and while I am at it...I agree..Sandra was a bit rough on you. Sandra is not always known for subtlety or nuance but more of like both barrels of a 12 gauge. I try not to hold that against her. Opinionated ...Sandra most certainly is..but that is her business. If you are going to hang around boards like this...you'd better grow a thick bark...or backbone to hang with Sandra...and some others. Or at least give it back with equal enthusiasm. I believe Sandra will respect that more than Jerry Springer Drama. And My measure is that Sandra does not easily give respect.

at1with0,

You done pontificating?

Do you believe that if I have sex with a dude that I am going to hell?

I am receptive to the statement "God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself there" but I don't think that is the doctrine; it sounds like your interpretation.


I don't care with whom you have sex...I just don't care to listen to the details or bragging about it...and then demanding acceptance of it...hetero or homo. I think this is really stupid of people. This is exactly what is wrong with this movement...all they have is sex and sexuality by which to demand and expect approval of other peoples.

That is extremely dumb thinking.

For those of us who can still think for ourselves know that people are more than sex and sexuality.

And when I detect politicians catering to this nonsense for votes I realize that they too are just as dumb..but doing so for political lucre.

This just tells me that they will sell anyone and everyone's soul for a vote or political lucre...on any issue no matter how dumb. To get away with it they must dumb the rest of us down further than they.

As to going to hell...all of us deserve hell and damnation. I think most of us are going to be surprised as to who gets to heaven with the Lord and who does not. It is not up to us..but up to Him..totally. This leaves us out of it..totally. It is whom He chooses...and for His reasons. This includes Believers who are going to be surprised.
Chosen people do not choose ..they are chosen.. He does the choosing. None of the Apostles chose..but were chosen by Him. No free will here.

Hope this helps some of you,
Orangetom
orangetom1999
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:25 am

Postby at1with0 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:09 pm

orangetom1999 wrote:
at1with0 wrote:You done pontificating?

Do you believe that if I have sex with a dude that I am going to hell?

I am receptive to the statement "God doesn't send anyone to hell, you send yourself there" but I don't think that is the doctrine; it sounds like your interpretation.


I don't care with whom you have sex...I just don't care to listen to the details or bragging about it...and then demanding acceptance of it...hetero or homo. I think this is really stupid of people. This is exactly what is wrong with this movement...all they have is sex and sexuality by which to demand and expect approval of other peoples.

That is extremely dumb thinking.

For those of us who can still think for ourselves know that people are more than sex and sexuality.

And when I detect politicians catering to this nonsense for votes I realize that they too are just as dumb..but doing so for political lucre.

This just tells me that they will sell anyone and everyone's soul for a vote or political lucre...on any issue no matter how dumb. To get away with it they must dumb the rest of us down further than they.


I pretty much agree when it comes to law and sex. I don't have anything against people bragging about it though, not that I would call it bragging. Certainly not an offense that justifies hell.

As to going to hell...all of us deserve hell and damnation. I think most of us are going to be surprised as to who gets to heaven with the Lord and who does not. It is not up to us..but up to Him..totally. This leaves us out of it..totally. It is whom He chooses...and for His reasons. This includes Believers who are going to be surprised.
Chosen people do not choose ..they are chosen.. He does the choosing. None of the Apostles chose..but were chosen by Him. No free will here.

Hope this helps some of you,
Orangetom

Well if it is not up to us, then it doesn't matter what choices we make in life to do this or that. It doesn't matter if you try your best to be law-abiding or righteous or altruistic. Especially if God doles out reward and punishment absolutely arbitrarily with no regard to what the person has done (or not done) with their life. It's a very appealing position since it removes all responsibility from a person.

I also absolutely don't agree that all of us deserve hell and damnation but it is nice to see that gays aren't singled out for being gay. There are those among us who are truly selfless and altruistic and they are less deserving of hell and damnation than those who are selfish and have criminal tendencies. You're saying that mother Theresa (or Jesus for that matter) and Hitler are equally deserving of hell and damnation.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9183
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby inja » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:26 pm

at1with0 wrote:
inja wrote:First off I would think if you have ever been in any kind of pain you would realize that even a minute of excruciating pain is pretty darn unbearable. I would think that "knowing" what was to come did not bring comfort,



Compare the two situations: The Biblical Jesus in the hands of the torturer and a POW in a Viet Kong stockade.

The first person KNOWS that within a few days they are going to die but also resurrect and live with God forever in heavenly bliss. The second, there for who knows how long, has no hope of a rescue, divine or otherwise.

Knowing what is to come in those types of situations can be the only thing that keeps you sane, so yes knowing what is to come matters immensely.


I will not disagree with you on your line of logic and can understand your point. And I am not a believer that Jesus died for my sins and that I require being saved...at least not in the way the Christian beliefs teaches. I am one who believes in reincarnation and so for me all of us are eventually united with the Source but we live many lives and move through karma to find the truth of who we are. So even the POW to me does "not know" based on "not knowing" he is united after death. I do not want to say due to lack of belief because that is not quite what I mean.
However I have to say to me the Gnostics belief that the Christ consciousness left Jesus before the crucifixion makes more sense in regards to the plea Jesus made. To me this makes sense and sounds true because we all can achieve unity with the Source during our awakened state (life - living I mean in this case)

But I do understand why Christians believe this was a great sacrifice on Jesus or God's part. For just a moment let us say the story is true....it is not just the physical pain he experienced but also the anguish that his children have forsaken him.....forsaken the Father. That would be taken beyond the experience of physical death.....and than in his love he forgives them all and not sure why, how nor do I believe in it this love and forgiveness has carried over the next 2000 some and more years.


When I say "knowing" I just want to clarify this is the heart knowing not the mind, reasoning or logic.
Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.
inja
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby khanster » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:54 am

http://www.jesuschrist.com/snake-on-a-pole


The Bible is filled with stories that deal with mankind’s sin. God required animal sacrifices to represent the taking away of sin. But the strangest ‘sin’ story of all may be the ‘Snake On The Pole’ story. It’s short.

Wandering Israelites grumbled and complained against God. God sent snakes to bite and kill many of them. Moses prayed to God for help. God told Moses to make a bronze snake and put it on a pole. Numbers 21:4-9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and LIVE.

About 1450 years later we learn from Jesus Christ that He was the fulfillment of that strange story. He said:

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal LIFE.” John 3:15

The snake represented sin. The snake on the pole represented Christ on the cross. Jesus Christ BECAME OUR SIN. 2 Cor. 5:21 Our sin was put to DEATH on the cross. Jesus Christ literally paid for OUR SIN with His own flesh and blood.

Jesus mentioned the ‘snake on the pole’ story just before He uttered the most famous verse in the Bible:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal LIFE.” John 3:16

When we have faith in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross paying for our sin we are assured of eternal life with Him. By His stripes we are healed! Isaiah 53:5

Another famous story: The Lamb of God

His older cousin, John the Baptist said: “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.”

On a fateful Friday the 13th an Angel of death killed all the firstborn in Egypt who were not protected by the blood of a lamb. Jesus was God’s sacrificial lamb. Exodus 11:4-6 and Exodus 12

Abraham sacrifices Isaac

The story of Abraham and Isaac is also a picture of Christ. God provided the required sacrifice for sin in Isaac’s place. Genesis 22:1-14

May you joyfully discover that the entire Bible, Old and New Testament, is ALL about Jesus Christ!

Here are some more facts:

♥ Almost 2000 years ago Jesus Christ rose from the grave after three days. He lives now and forever. He freely gives eternal life to all who truly believe in Him.

♥ When Jesus Christ died on the cross OUR SIN DIED on the cross.

♥ Jesus Christ is ‘perfect’. If we are IN Jesus Christ WE are made perfect. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17

♥ We are no longer separated from God. We are, by faith IN Jesus Christ and ‘born again’ into His family forever! John 3:3

‘The wages of sin are death but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal LIFE in Jesus Christ our Lord.’ Romans 6:23


User avatar
khanster
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:18 am

Postby shadowcass » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:33 pm

Well, as it happens. God isn't all that concerned with what are known as "The sins of the Flesh" (which includes homosexuality).

Being a Christian I happen to know this. As a matter of fact the only reason that homosexuality can even be CALLED a sin is because such relationships don't produce offsoring which is the underlying purpose of sex, after all. God's first commanment was "REplenish the earth". In other words...produce kids. So, yeah, in the sense it doesn't fulfill its original function, it is a sin.

But it's not even that for Christians.

And I am going to tell you why. Because if there's one thing I really HATE It’s idiots that quote Bible verses who haven’t a clue about the real issues. Take the self-styled “Christian Fundamentalists” who aren’t Christians at all. Oh, it’s not ME saying that (well, okay, it IS) but only because the Bible says that.



Most recently they’ve hauled out those Biblical verses that condemn homosexuality as a sin and used that to bash gays over the head in a frantic attempt to avoid granting them the same privilege every other law-abiding citizen has. The privilege to marry the person they love.



Now, the Constitution of the United States of America (you remember, that social contract you read about in school that defines the rules that govern all our lives) says this: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

That’s Section 1 of the 14th Amendment. Note especially the words “No state shall make or enforce ANY law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States…nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the EQUAL protection of the laws.”

Now you’d think that would be clear enough for ANYONE, wouldn’t you? It means no state can legally pass a law telling you you cannot marry a person of the same sex as yourself. That wouldn’t be equal protection under the law which forbids abridging your rights, now would it?

*****************************************************************************************************************

Well, of course, these bigots KNOW that so they appeal to the Bible but even THERE they are NOT on firm ground.

The prohibitions against homosexuality (and many MANY other sins…including remarriage while your divorced spouse is still alive) are part of Mosaic Law. But Mosaic Law does not APPLY to Christians. Moreover we are specifically instructed NOT to turn to it for if we do we lose our salvation.



“WHAT???” you may say/

Let us turn in our Bibles to Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians (the epistle that Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant Movement, most loved—-indeed his his commentary on it is something I highly recommend to all students of Scripture,)

We begin with the second chapter:



Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

For those of you who do not get the gist of this…let me explain…when Paul confronts Peter it is because Peter is playing the hypocrite. It is a sin (under Mosaic Law) for a Jew to eat Gentile (i. e. non-kosher) food but Peter did it anyway…as long as no other Jews were present. But “when certain came from James” he stopped and began putting on an act for THEM so that he wouldn’t get into trouble with Brother Jimmy back home in Jerusalem.

James. you must understand—if you are ever to understand one of the most glaring seeming contradictions in all of the New Testament, was the Head of the Church at Jerusalem…which was composed entirely of Jewish converts to Christianity. The reason why he was elected the head is because he was the younger brother of Jesus. (Technically, half-brother, because they had different fathers) and it was the norm to choose the next of kin to succeed a fallen leader. The only problem is that there is no evidence that James was ever a follower of Jesus before His Crucifixion. Actually, the available evidence indicates that he wasn’t: “When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “ He has lost His senses.” (own people means “kinsmen”) ( Mark 3:21 New American Standard Bible).

James was a devout Jew. In fact, he was known for that.St. Jerome (one of the early Church Fathers 347-420 CE) quotes an earlier writer Hegesippus (110-180 CE) thusly: “”After the apostles, James the brother of the Lord surnamed the Just was made head of the Church at Jerusalem. Many indeed are called James. This one was holy from his mother’s womb. He drank neither wine nor strong drink, ate no flesh, never shaved or anointed himself with ointment or bathed. He alone had the privilege of entering the Holy of Holies, since indeed he did not use woolen vestments but linen and went alone into the temple and prayed in behalf of the people, insomuch that his knees were reputed to have acquired the hardness of camels’ knees.””

So James tried to do what you might expect…unite the two covenants, the one given on Mount Sinai (the Law) and the one given on Calvary (Salvation by grace. Now, grace means “unmerited favor”. It is not something you EARN it is Christ’s gift) and James just couldn’t get his head around that (anymore than the Fundamentalists of today can) but at least James was willing to compromise with Paul when it came to the NON-Jewish Christians. Too bad the Fundamentalists can’t compromise when it comes to NON-heterosexual Christians, isn’t it?)


And give James credit..he did die for the Faith as Josephus (the Jewish Historian) records in Book 20 of his ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS : “But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.”

And by getting himself martyred James provides something some VERY stupid people claim Christians lack…proof that Jesus was ever born.
After all, you can’t be the brother of a non-existent person, now can you? Now, the Testimonium Flavianum (so called because Josephus’ first name was Flavius) an earlier mention of Jesus in Antiquities has been (quite rightly) attacked as being an interpolation by some zealous Christian Monk during the Middle Ages. In THAT passage Josephus (a Jew, I remind you) burbles on with phrases like “About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah…” and so on and so forth. Something no Jew would ever have written.

On the other hand, no zealous monk would ever refer to Jesus as “the so-called Christ” but a Jew most definitely would. Now the Jesus-Birther Movement can’t have it both ways. Here we have a clear non-Biblical non-Christian mention of Jesus written no later than 94 CE. Now, James died in 62 CE by which time Josephus would have been 25 years old so he is contemporary with the history he is recording.
****************************************************************************************************

DAMN it! I’ve let myself get sidetracked by those idiot birther people again so now I’ll have to hurry.

Back to Galatians: the third chapter now: “

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Chapter four continues the argument put forward above (Paul just wrote a letter he never heard of chapter and verse—all that was added later and usually, as here, in the wrong place, Paul isn’t through producing his evidence yet): “Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.

13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.

19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”

********************************************************************************************

So you see, it is even as I told you when I began this…we are not UNDER the Law and if we TRY to live by it Christ will cast us out even as Abraham cast out the bond-woman and her child.
User avatar
shadowcass
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Postby at1with0 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:53 pm

Looks like you have a blog, shadow.
http://shadowcasspresentsdotcom.wordpre ... lly-tired/

It makes it feel like a stock response, when quoting yourself like that but no matter.

shadowcass wrote:the only reason that homosexuality can even be CALLED a sin is because such relationships don't produce offsoring which is the underlying purpose of sex, after all. God's first commanment was "REplenish the earth". In other words...produce kids. So, yeah, in the sense it doesn't fulfill its original function, it is a sin.


It was hard to read beyond this point.

After I was born, my father had a vasectomy. Are you telling me that every time he had sex after I was born, it was a sin? And my brother uses birth control with his wife; they too are sinning when they have sex?

Also, I don't get how you say that God is unconcerned with sins of the flesh and then in the next breath say this or that act of flesh is sinful?
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9183
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby greeney2 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:11 pm

Shadowcass I hate when people misuse and misquote the Constitution.

The 10th amendment is the following:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Which for this discusson means the requirments for marriage fall under individual States rights, it is not a federal government issue. That is now being decided in the California State Supreme Court, and will be taken to all the other State courts in question. It has not become a federal issue becasue the federal government does do issue marriage licences, States do. It may eventually become a Federal Surpreme Court issue, but for not it isn't.

In any case, how does the US laws, State or Federal, have anything to do with Bible inturpetation? One has nothing to do with the other. Adultry is a sin according to the Bible, but it is not illegal. Certain kinds are such prostitution, would be an exception. And that is not in all states by the way.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9668
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

PreviousNext

Return to Religion & Spirituality

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest