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A Case for Intelligent Design: Part 2

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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:48 pm

Good point, Greene. Technology should be used responsibly and drivers need to focus on driving, for their own safety and so they won't endanger others. I don't see what that has to do with religion or ID specifically, though.
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby frrostedman » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:58 pm

CodeBlackv2 wrote:I think the multiverse theory is nothing more than starting with the concept of "we don't know" and then creating a theory that makes it ok that we don't know. Normally, a scientific theory as developed in order to explain, as yet unexplained, behavior. But the multiverse theory seems to be going in the reverse direction, trying to find behavior to match the completely imagined theory.

I'm not saying that I know for a fact that there is no multiverse but we must have a sound basis for theorizing such a thing. At the very least this is a not fully formed theory. And if there is a multiverse, so what? How does it relate to I.D.?

Well said.

Now... right or wrong... the Christian sees this unnecessarily-complicated, imagined, so-called "theory," as just a contemporary, fanciful way of trying to escape and insulate one-self, layer by layer, from the concept of accountability and a Creator.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:12 pm

You seem like you don't know what you're talking about, yet you're ready to make moral judgments based on what little you know.

Do religious people know how to distinguish between knowing and liking? A multiverse isn't a fact, but here's what is a fact: if religious people jump off tall buildings, they get hurt or killed. Does that make gravity immoral? Does that make studying or teaching it immoral?

Like it or not, gravity is real. I doubt scientists say, "Oh, this theory contradicts religion X. It must be true! Oh, this evidence contradicts religion Y. It must be true!" They just do the damn science and try to figure out how reality actually is, without worrying about whether it might offend some muslim or christian or other religion's believers.

It simply does not matter how that makes you feel. Your religion doesn't get veto rights over science, no matter how immoral that seems to you.
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:23 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:
at1with0 wrote:What if the objective universe and truth were hell?


What if God was squawk squawk squawk? Just a squawk squawk squawk squawk squawk? Trying to squawk squawk squawk squawk?



SQUAWK SQUAWK i wuv u SQUAWK SQUAWK
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:30 pm

at1with0 wrote:
DIss0n80r wrote:
at1with0 wrote:What if the objective universe and truth were hell?


What if God was squawk squawk squawk? Just a squawk squawk squawk squawk squawk? Trying to squawk squawk squawk squawk?



SQUAWK SQUAWK i wuv u SQUAWK SQUAWK


I wuv u tew. We should get married and have lots of leftist homo babies.
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Postby at1with0 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:33 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:
I wuv u tew. We should get married and have lots of leftist homo babies.


but if they were homo, they would have to move to CANADA to marry each other.
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:36 pm

at1with0 wrote:
DIss0n80r wrote:
I wuv u tew. We should get married and have lots of leftist homo babies.


but if they were homo, they would have to move to CANADA to marry each other.


Not if we use science to bring Canada here! :dance:
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Postby greeney2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:27 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:Good point, Greene. Technology should be used responsibly and drivers need to focus on driving, for their own safety and so they won't endanger others. I don't see what that has to do with religion or ID specifically, though.



You are right it is way off the subject of ID, the thread just got on a tangent talking about needing science and not needing religion, which morphed into discussion about science having many bad results and concepts. I guess the point I was trying to just make is regulating science in area that do not affect our direct personal life, we don;t think about when regulated. Issues were science might want to be regulated that affects our daily life, people regard as invading their freedom. Science gave us all these entertainment toys, but try to regulate what you can't watch on the TV, becomes a freedom issue. Prohibition was a good example, where technology of mass production and distribution of alcohol, affected the social behavior of a society, so they outlawed it. It came back, the freedom was restored, but it still had laws to control its useage, regulate it.

I don't know too much about this concept of parallel universes, but if there could be, imagine ours may have been just as Genisis said, and Origional Sin with Adam and Eve began, and this followed mankind, to our current world condition. In a parallel universe, imagine that Eve never tempted Adam, and they lived in a Garden of Eden, populating and evolving without sin until 2012. The earth was pure, there was no pollution, no disease, no wars, no sin. What if that happened in a identical universe, playing out the same words of Genisis, except Adam and Eve obeyed the one condition God gave them.
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:31 pm

That's a pretty cool idea, Greene. :)
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Postby humphreys » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:38 am

The multiverse is simply the big bang taken to its logical conclusion.

To an atheist, denying it should make as much sense as denying the existence of life outside of earth.

It also has support from certain interpretations of quantum physics. It is not, however, a scientific theory, it is just an hypothesis at this stage because it is currently not possible to get direct evidence of other worlds.

That doesn't make it any less likely to be real, though.

I would go so far as to say a single atheistic Universe is less likely than a theistic one, so the two most logically acceptable explanations are the multiverse in some form, and theism, because without the multiverse, the existence of intelligent life is seriously hard to explain. Now, when I say theism, I do not mean Christianity, or Islam, I mean something close to deism, pantheism, or the God of Spinoza.

Interestingly, those types of theism are actually compatible with a multiverse anyway, so both could be true.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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