The Black Vault

orangetom1999 wrote:SmokinJoe,

Interesting statement at the bottom of your post..

Dawkins thinks belief in God is an excuse to evade thinking in the scientific world. Sadly, he is ignorant to the list of christian scientists who have contributed & founded many of the sciences he himself believes in. How ironic.

Though I do alot of reading when I can, I only became aware of that statement in the last few years. It was and continues to be an eye opener for me as to how many people are scientists as well as Christians.

I know several who work for a science laboratory in Albuquerque...called Sandia Labs...as well as right here at the NASA Langley Research Center right up the road from me here in Virginia.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Thanks OT..I wrote that after watching Dawkins in an interview stating that absurd line of crap. That quote was what I thought when I actually heard him speaking such utter nonsense.

I've actually posted here at the bv that list of christian scientists who founded many of the branches of the various scientific disciplines of which Dawkins subscribes. I've actually posted it a couple of times in the past. I know I've had discussions about this very topic with hump, inja, nigfis (old member), sotexas (older member) and a host of other bv'ers.

It's probably one of only a handful of posts in this section that had many different posters and little to no flaming and childish name calling going on.

I do miss those days.

SJ,

Long time no see, brother.

Just tonight I caught myself longing for the days of Protosis. Man that was good stuff!

SmokinJoe wrote:

humphreys wrote:This is why you never learn and continue to spout the same lies, even when corrected.

You cannot find the quote because there isn't one. You are mistaken.

I know what ya mean, Hump...I've had the same issue with posters in the past.

I don't want to get in the middle of this and takes sides, so I hope no one gets offended, but in all my talks with Humphreys, I don't recall him having the position that the Big Bang Theory proves God doesn't exist.

Now, there is the general belief that many atheists make that The Big Bang happened without the need for ANY God to be behind it. However, that is not the same thing as claiming God does not exist.

Maybe other more naive posters have made that claim, but when I posted on the Christian priest/monk who introduced the Big Bang Theory some time ago, hump and I discussed it in depth. Nothing was mentioned that the bang proves God doesn't exist. Heck, it was a christian who came up with theory. Anyone who is remotely aware of the Big Bang Theory should know that. And if they know that, then it would just be stupid to make such an ignorant and unsupported claim.

Exactly joe, the big bang debate has always been about whether it was possible without a God. But that's weak atheism in a nutshell - a core basis of the position - that the Universe is possible without God, making God an unnecessary hypothesis, not that a god is impossible.

Like I stated about my metalurgy classes we studied about the big bang theory, and how it related to our study of atoms, grain and lattice sturctures in metals, etc.etc. Never was it related to any concepts to disproove God or creation in class, nor did I reject it on those perspectives thinking that didn't happen, God created the Universe. I do understand it at least basically, and accept the theory as actual, I do not reject it. It has been my opinion, that the idea of creation, the "HOW" part of creation is not in the Bible, only "WHAT" and "WHEN". On the First day---God created etc.etc. "The Physical How" is not defined, nor what a day was to God. We only know time as it pretains to our earths rotations, to God a Day may have been a billion human years.

Strong and weak atheism may differ in your mind, but in my mind, they are not different, or at least, why would it matter to someone who is a believer? Its like stating "I do not believe in God", and the next person says " I really really do not believe in God" But it sounds like the weak follows suit, from the strong atheist, that the strong take the lead, so to speak. The clear message I've gotten is that the emphasis on such science, is used to disproove the entire Bible, and in this case Genesis. And the clear overall message is that all the Bible is false to Atheists, and therefore God is a Myth, God does not exist, and its all a Fairytale.

That's probably because you assume your Christian God is the God. It's possible to believe in a God without being a Christian or follower of any organized religion, and it's also possible to debate the subject of God without it being about your bible. Biblical nonsense doesn't invalidate God's existence. It just means your particular man-made religion doesn't have all the answers.

For a theist who doesn't buy into organized religion, such weak/strong nuances are meaningful and important. It's vital to differentiate between debunking the claims of specific religions, and debating the existence/nature/attributes of God as a general abstract entity.

People who think like you only cloud the issue with your know-it-all "my religion is right" attitude.

And you should take the same lesson from yourself, as you call the Bible Hogwash.

greeney2 wrote:And you should take the same lesson from yourself, as you call the Bible Hogwash.

I don't have a religion. I have a brain.

And if I said Hogwash, would you think that was a cordial debate?

Okay, I'll remove the hogwash part. Happy?

Just making the point all sides can be very offensive, and watch how we respond to each other, myself included.