Disson8or, what I have an issue with is when faith is used to justify belief.
Statements such as "I believe God is real because I have faith" really do not make sense going by any of those definitions above. That's why I was asking for a definition from greeney because he thinks there is a definition that justifies belief - but none of them do.
I understand trust, that someone could trust God to his word, but to trust God you also must first have justification for belief, and it's when faith is used for both the justification and the trust that logic completely goes out of the window.
Going by some of those definitions, logic and faith do not need to be at odds. I can have faith (definition 1) that I will not crash my car, based on my mental state, my reasonable driving skill, and basic statistics for instance, which would be a logical faith, but the faith being employed by Christians (and others) would seem to be of the illogical kind.
Greeney complains that I do not have faith in my son, but if I go by definition 1, I can say that I do have faith in him. I have faith that he will do well because he's a bright kid, and I believe he has good parents, but that "faith", again, is not the same as the faith greeney is using to justify his belief, so trying to equate the two is clearly an epic fail. You notice that my faith in both instances is backed up by reason
, and that's the difference here.
To be reasonable you must have "faith because of xyz", not just "faith because
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."
- Sam Harris