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the pick your passage and run with it thread

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Postby at1with0 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:29 pm

Rom.10
[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.




I've heard Christians talk of chosen people and imply that the person can't choose to be among the chosen. But Romans 10:9 would seem to indicate that one can make a choice to be saved. But can we choose our beliefs? I think we can to an extent as well as choose to stop believing.
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Postby OraProNobis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:21 pm

I've heard Christians talk of chosen people and imply that the person can't choose to be among the chosen. But Romans 10:9 would seem to indicate that one can make a choice to be saved. But can we choose our beliefs? I think we can to an extent as well as choose to stop believing.


I tend to agree with you.

I think God calls all souls, and His salvation was meant for everyone.

It is choice , but sometimes our hearts and minds need to be cultivated in a certain way ,through grace, before we can make wise choices.
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Postby qmark » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:39 pm

at1with0 wrote:I've heard Christians talk of chosen people and imply that the person can't choose to be among the chosen. But Romans 10:9 would seem to indicate that one can make a choice to be saved. But can we choose our beliefs? I think we can to an extent as well as choose to stop believing.


Indeed. There are many verses which could possibly be used to support that position.
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Postby at1with0 » Fri May 11, 2012 8:13 pm

Isaiah 7:9

http://patmccullough.com/2010/01/13/fox ... augustine/

Without faith thou will not be established.

What does established mean ?
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Postby DIss0n80r » Fri May 11, 2012 10:08 pm

A house divided cannot stand?
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby frrostedman » Sat May 12, 2012 4:19 am

at1with0 wrote:I've heard Christians talk of chosen people and imply that the person can't choose to be among the chosen. But Romans 10:9 would seem to indicate that one can make a choice to be saved. But can we choose our beliefs? I think we can to an extent as well as choose to stop believing.

So you are saying that you can choose what you believe with your heart.

We've been over this before.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself, can you force yourself to truly believe that 2+2=6.381?

I'm not talking about hypnotic suggestion or any other clever idea to get around the obvious fact that what you believe "in thine heart" requires that you truly believe it and not just confess it with your lips.

Though it does technically boil down to a "choice," it's not at all meant to be interpreted as a flippent, arbitrary choice, i.e., "Today I think I'll have faith in Christ and confess it... that way I'll be saved." No. It's not like that.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby at1with0 » Sat May 12, 2012 7:04 am

frrostedman wrote:
at1with0 wrote:I've heard Christians talk of chosen people and imply that the person can't choose to be among the chosen. But Romans 10:9 would seem to indicate that one can make a choice to be saved. But can we choose our beliefs? I think we can to an extent as well as choose to stop believing.

So you are saying that you can choose what you believe with your heart.

We've been over this before.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself, can you force yourself to truly believe that 2+2=6.381?

I'm not talking about hypnotic suggestion or any other clever idea to get around the obvious fact that what you believe "in thine heart" requires that you truly believe it and not just confess it with your lips.

Though it does technically boil down to a "choice," it's not at all meant to be interpreted as a flippent, arbitrary choice, i.e., "Today I think I'll have faith in Christ and confess it... that way I'll be saved." No. It's not like that.


I have been working on believing 2+2=17, actually. I've gotten to the point where it is plausible, though I only believe it's true briefly.
Also, I used to have faith in Christ and now I don't (*) as a result of making a different choice.
I guess one question I have is who is Romans 10:9 written for? Believers or non-believers? If non-believers are in the target audience, then it would indicate that one can change their minds about Christ. If it's not for non-believers, then it's utterly superfluous.
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat May 12, 2012 9:52 am

Oh dear lord :mrgreen:
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby at1with0 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:14 am

I think God is capable of pulling the wool over our eyes. That is how it works: suppose two people are carrying bags each containing two apples. In the illusion, we SEE four apples total but in reality, there are really 17 apples. God is pulling the wool over our eyes.

Generalizing, 2+2=17.

Yes, frosty, I can choose my beliefs and Paul was suggesting a pathway to salvation for the unbelievers who choose to adhere to Romans 10:9.

I don't believe 2+2=17 for long, a lot like how some people vacillate between believing they are in a matrix or not.

I feel like Ninor with all this emphasis. :lol:
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat May 12, 2012 10:25 am

Oh godddd

...such a mindgasm. :D
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