The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

The War on Terrorism & Homeland Security

Marine who badmouthed Obama being court martialed

Discuss the War on Terrorism, Homeland Security, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and other global terrorist concerns.

Postby greeney2 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:48 am

Could not find where this was discussed, but the idea a uniformed person whatsoever can make disparaging comments about the Commander in Chief, or any other person up the chain of command, is a cardinal offence in any branch of service. When you take the oath, you are under the UCMJ and subject to military laws and regulations. As a civilian you can scream obsenities about the President all you want to, but as a active duty Marine, Obama is the top General, the Commander in Chief. Personally I hope he doesn't end up with a Dishonable discharge, but it it is possible knowing the Marine Corp. Bad Conduct or undesirable is also possible. Also possible is a lower lever court martial within the UCMJ, which could give him time in the Brigg and demotion in rank. Believe me, you do not want to experience "correction custody" in the Marine Corp. Bottom line is when you enlist in the military, certain rights are signed away, like this one where you do not have freedom of speech to talk bad about the Commander in Chief. Thats the way is should be IMHO.

Marine faces 'administrative action' over Obama Facebook post
Nine-year Marine put comments on the Armed Forces Tea Party page saying he would not follow unlawful orders from Obama, such as ordering the killing of or taking guns away from Americans.
Comments 32Share351
By Tony Perry, Los Angeles Times

March 22, 2012
Reporting from San Diego—

The Marine Corps is moving to boot a Marine for having made "political statements" about the commander in chief on a Facebook page.

Sgt. Gary Stein, 26, a nine-year veteran, put comments on the Armed Forces Tea Party page that said he would not follow unlawful orders from President Obama such as ordering the killing of Americans or taking guns away from Americans.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice prohibits uniformed personnel from making comments critical of their chain of command, including the commander in chief.

An investigation into Stein's comments was ordered March 8 by the commanding officer of the weapons and field training battalion at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego. On Wednesday, the Marine Corps announced that rather than file charges against Stein, the matter is being handled "through administrative action."

Stein, a weather specialist, had come to the attention of his superiors two years ago for using the Internet to criticize Obama's healthcare proposal. At that time, he offered to take down the comments.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby marlio » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:16 am

This incident would have never happend with bush, but our "so called" commander has Paper thin skin and cant take any kind of criticism. EVeryone knows he is just a puppet and shouldnt even be in office, but the two stooges of the bunch overlooked it but he wont be elected. He wont be elected no matter how much he tries to make trayvolt something he isnt, or tries to make womens right the issue. It wont work because people arent that stupid, and see through him. Oh bo you have to go, we cant take you any mo.
marlio
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Postby greeney2 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:08 pm

I would not have happened with Bush because the troops related to him. That said, no one wearing a uniform of the armed forces has the right to be saying and doing things that disparage the Commander in Chief, like him or not at the President. Sorry but I think this is proper to reprimand him no matter how bad we may think Obama is. You may not like to hear this but when you enlist, you give away some rights that you had as a civilian. One happens to be a different relationship with the President. He is your top General, he is your Commander in Chief, and the office demands the respect of Chain of Command, and not showing any disregard for ranks above you. When you are a civilian scream from the top of any mountian, how bad he is, but when you are in his command, you do not say anything.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby ricardo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:54 pm

I agree g2 . respect yes cic yes. was his infraction stating he would not follow

un- lawful orders ? the training manual says that much ! non judicial

administrative action. ] what , restricted to base for xyz weekends ?. maybe an

pay grade. or letter of reprimand . it will not surprise me , if he is given a

commendation letter for stating the obvious. ' do not follow unlawful orders '

he could get an promotion to the Alaska recruiting office fairbanks , ak

lol :dance:
User avatar
ricardo
 
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:10 pm

Postby The_Joker » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:47 am

Not only will the Marine get a DD he will do time as well whether his comments were true or not. Such are the UCMJ as you are aware Greeney2.
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:53 am

It indicates he will recieve a lower level disapline, the UCMJ has diffenet level court maritials and also repremands at the CO level, where he may not recieve a DD or any discharge at all, but a good slap on the wrists could include demotion of 1 rank, a fine, and possible brig time, but not hard core prison. His entire record will be taken into consideration. He is not a bad guy, but he made a monumental mistake of breach of chain of command, doing something that shows insobordiation. My guess is it will sting him but not be a military ending sentence.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby The_Joker » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:41 pm

greeney2 wrote:It indicates he will recieve a lower level disapline, the UCMJ has diffenet level court maritials and also repremands at the CO level, where he may not recieve a DD or any discharge at all, but a good slap on the wrists could include demotion of 1 rank, a fine, and possible brig time, but not hard core prison. His entire record will be taken into consideration. He is not a bad guy, but he made a monumental mistake of breach of chain of command, doing something that shows insobordiation. My guess is it will sting him but not be a military ending sentence.



Let's hope you are right and politics does not interfere with Justice as it so often does ... keep me posted on this as it is of interest to me.

Joker
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
User avatar
The_Joker
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Postby greeney2 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:25 pm

I'll watch for the results, but if it ends up a CO reprimand, we may not ever hear the results. What he did was blantantly stupid, but they also are learning in the military that with access to computers, and things like facebook, they are writing a new book on rules concerning that. He still did a fundemental mistake where you are not free to critisize up the chain of command, and everyone knows the President is Commander in Chief. The are also learning that people who think their facebooks are private, find out that they end up in every corner of the world, and come back to haunt you. I think, if they havn't already, new written UCMJ rules will be written, for social networking, cellphones, texting, etc. etc. Something that never existed a few years ago, and part of the new military age.

I'll also check into the differert levels of court martials their are now. I don't recall them from my days, but they had different levels, if what you did was not just "Standing in Front of the Man". Trust me in the Marine Corp, that and the resulting punishments, will make a believer out of you. I've saw it everyday at the Marine corp Recuit center. Correctional Custody is no fun.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:08 am

Joker, these are the 3 levels of court martials. Summery is the lowest, but they said he was being handled as a lesser administrative thing. In other words he will have no court martial at all, but still under the UCMJ would be a repremand within your Platoon or company level, but not a court martial or trial. He will "stand before the man", as they say, and get his ass reamed royally, by the CO and Sgt. Major formally, and probaby be given some punishment and restrictions that will sting, and put him on the sh*t list for a while. It is possible to be given some brigg time less than 30 days, or some real sh*t detail, Latrene or KP duty, some kind of scuzzy cleaning duty, no liberty or leaves, He could take away a strip and could fine him. He won't do it again. When I was in, they had Correctional Custody for recruits that got into trouble, and they were literally on a rock pile or moving sand bags endlessly across a huge sandy area, 16 hours a day. It was brutal, and everyone knew, if you saw a prisoner being walked by his guard, NEVER WALK BETWEEN THEM, the guard will knock you senseless with his billyclub. They didn't screw around in those days, but those were the days of real brutality and beatings.


Courts-Martial Explained

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) provides for three different types of courts-martial: summary, special, and general. These forms of courts-martial differ in their make-up and the punishments which may be imposed.

The Military Rules of Evidence apply to all classifications of courts-martial. Moreover, an accused must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Summary Court-Martial

A summary court-martial consists of one commissioned officer, and may try only enlisted personnel for noncapital offenses. The punishment which may be imposed depends on the grade of the accused.

In the case of enlisted members above the fourth pay grade, a summary court-martial may impose any punishment not forbidden by the law except death, dismissal , dishonorable or bad conduct discharge, confinement for more than 1 month, hard labor without confinement for more than 45 days, restriction to specified limits for more than 2 months, or forfeiture of more than two-thirds of 1 month's pay.





In the case of all other enlisted members, the court-martial may also impose confinement for not more than one month and may reduce the accused to the lowest pay grade, E-1.

The accused has the absolute right to refuse trial by summary court-martial. The accused does not have the right to representation by an attorney. The accused does have the right to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses and produce evidence, and to testify or remain silent.

Special Court-Martial

A special court-martial consists of not less than three members and a military judge, or an accused may be tried by military judge alone upon request of the accused.

A special court-martial is often characterized as a misdemeanor court, and may try all persons subject to the UCMJ, including officers and midshipmen.

A special court-martial may impose any punishment authorized under R.C.M.1003 except death, dishonorable discharge, dismissal, confinement for more than 1 year, hard labor without confinement for more than 3 months, forfeiture of pay exceeding two-thirds pay per month, or any forfeiture of pay for more than 1 year. .

General Court-Martial

A general court-martial consists of not less than five members and a military judge, or an accused may be tried by military judge alone upon request of the accused.

A general court-martial is often characterized as a felony court, and may try all persons subject to the UCMJ, including officers and midshipmen.

A general court-martial may adjudge any punishment not prohibited by the UCMJ, including death when specifically authorized.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby greeney2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:33 am

Hey Joker, just found this! It concerns another insodent of a Marine in trouble making comments on Twitter---The Marine Corp states a rule to Marines using the social media that causes a negative reflexion on the Marine Corp is a NO-NO. So have have layed down the law about the use of computers and being responsible for tha behavior. Some things you just can not do when you are an active person in the Military, you are not a civilian.

Marine in trouble for tweet about Trayvon Martin shooting
April 14, 2012 | 4:41pm
A Marine at Twentynine Palms is facing punishment after making an "inappropriate" reference to the Trayvon Martin case in a Twitter message, the Marine Corps said Saturday.

The Marine, a staff sergeant with 10 years in the corps, put a message on Twitter: "Rifle range all day today. Shooting black all day like George Zimmerman." Silhouettes on rifle range targets are painted black.

Once his command found out about the post, he deleted the post, erased his Twitter account and took down his MySpace account.

The Marine also apologized for the post when contacted by a reporter for the Marine Corps Times: "It was a distasteful comment that was said. I guess at the time I didn't realize how one comment would affect so many people negatively, and for that I apologize to everybody."

The Marine faces unspecified discipline by his command, a Marine spokesman said.

Marine Corps policy on the use of social media warns Marines not to post comments that reflect negatively on themselves or the Marine Corps.
greeney2
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Next

Return to The War on Terrorism & Homeland Security

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 1 guest