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Cardinal George Pell Says Adam and Eve story a MYTH

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Postby humphreys » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:55 pm

In comments that may shock some staunch Catholics, Cardinal George Pell has described the biblical story of Adam and Eve as a myth.

He appeared alongside renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins, on the ABC's Q&A program last night.

Cardinal Pell said the existence of Adam and Eve was not a matter of science but rather a mythological account.

"It's a very sophisticated mythology to try to explain the evil and the suffering in the world," he said.

"It's a religious story told for religious purposes."

According to Genesis, God created Adam and Eve as the first man and woman and all people are descended from them.

Cardinal Pell's explosive comments came after he was questioned about evolution.

He said it was impossible to say when there was a first human.

It is widely accepted in the scientific community that life on Earth has evolved over about four billion years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/ne ... dnt-exist/

Some common sense perhaps! :thumbup:
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby humphreys » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:59 pm

For anyone who does not know who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pell

I find his comments on Adam and Even surprising, as this man is conservative, and quite an influential and well known figure, known for his "strict adherence to Catholic orthodoxy".

Thoughts anyone?

My thoughts are that believers should be very careful about calling such a key biblical story a "mythical account", as it's a very slippery slope from there, and you might find a heck of a lot more of the Bible is put into the same pile.

If this story is rejected, why not others?
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby qmark » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:44 pm

I, for one, would not dismiss it outright.
The Book of Luke includes Adam in Jesus' geneology. Plus Paul and Jude both spoke of Adam as an actual person.
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Postby frrostedman » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:02 pm

The fact that he presented his case alongside Richard Dawkins tells me all I need to know. He's a farce, a fraud, and should be defrocked.
"But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about Jesus being a great teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." C.S. Lewis
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Postby frrostedman » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:05 pm



Notice in the video where Dawkins says he is hostile to any view that opposes his. What an arrogant jackass.
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Postby cormac » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:14 pm

of course it's a myth ... seriously, how can anyone take any of those stories as if they are fact ... the story of jesus is just the story of the egyptian god horace ... same basic stuff ... born of a virgin, impressed the priests at the temple with his knowledge as a young boy, had 12 disciples, was killed for his beliefs, rose from the dead ... thousands of years before jesus ... and there are many other gods based on the same story of horace ... they are fairy tales, folklore, mythology ... why anyone treats them as anything more is beyond belief ...
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Postby frrostedman » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:27 pm

cormac wrote:of course it's a myth ... seriously, how can anyone take any of those stories as if they are fact ... the story of jesus is just the story of the egyptian god horace ... same basic stuff ... born of a virgin, impressed the priests at the temple with his knowledge as a young boy, had 12 disciples, was killed for his beliefs, rose from the dead ... thousands of years before jesus ... and there are many other gods based on the same story of horace ... they are fairy tales, folklore, mythology ... why anyone treats them as anything more is beyond belief ...


What is equally beyond belief is that you take that argument at face value without doing your homework. By the way it's spelled Horus.

  • In Egyptian mythology, Horus was not borne of a virgin (Isis "hovered" over the erect penis of Osiris)
  • Horus never taught in any temple
  • Horus did not have 12 disciples. He had 4 followers. There are also some references to 16 followers.

If the story of Jesus were pure myth and fairytale, then why is it that the faith still exists strongly today, whereas other beliefs such as Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, et al, have completely fallen away?

So then, I guess it's on to Mithra or someone else. Right?

You are practicing what is called willful ignorance. And that is not intended as an insult. It is very common and most of us practice it to some degree.
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Postby Halfabo » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:32 pm

cormac wrote:of course it's a myth ... seriously, how can anyone take any of those stories as if they are fact ... the story of jesus is just the story of the egyptian god horace ... same basic stuff ... born of a virgin, impressed the priests at the temple with his knowledge as a young boy, had 12 disciples, was killed for his beliefs, rose from the dead ... thousands of years before jesus ... and there are many other gods based on the same story of horace ... they are fairy tales, folklore, mythology ... why anyone treats them as anything more is beyond belief ...


In recent years there have been quite a few people who have pointed out similarities between some ancient myths and the accounts of the life of Jesus. The problem is the similarities were added after the fact. Those similarities do not appear in the original myths. The problem is that so many fools actually believe what is claimed without ever bothering to research it for themselves.
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:09 am

First, I wondered why we didn't see this listed last night, and never herd of the show until realizing it was from ABC---Austrailian Television. I found the video of the entire show and took a few minutes to watch it, and ended up watching the entire hour show.

Like anything else taken out of context, and not showing the entire clip, it took on a very different meaning seeing the context in which it was from, the entire conversation about evelution, and explanation of Adam and eve, early man and humans. The Cardinal was a very intellegent and knowlegable person. He definatly was not outdone by Dawkins, in fact Dawkins was unable to give any credible or coherant answers, to several main topics, one being the explanation of the Big Bang, explaining creating a Universe from Nothing. After his long conveluted answer the Cardinal rebutted him, and blew him out of the water, concerning matter and electromagnetic forces, etc.. The concept of creating the universe from nothing and the research about that. The Cardinal knew his subjects talking about the first humans, and relationships to evolving from early man, science as related to theology, and the big bang research. Several times the audience laughed at Dawkins answers. One time the Cardinal set Dawkins straight about an issue, quoting the exact page and line a statement prooved his claim wrong. Dawkins several times was stopped dead in his tracks by some of the Cardinals simple rebuttal questions, the audiance applauded him for. Dawkins to me sounded stupid about his conclusions about God, when he could not give scientific explantaions that were complete. He just used much of the same text book rhetoric and buzz words, that are just repeated by the followers.

I think the bigger more important answers the Cardinal gave, were not about Adam and Eve, but his answers concerning Hell, suffering, and the idea even Atheists could find Heaven. There were far more important things that were said, too bad the only point you want to pick up on is to misconstru the Adam and Eve explanation.
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Postby humphreys » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:58 am

frrostedman wrote:The fact that he presented his case alongside Richard Dawkins tells me all I need to know. He's a farce, a fraud, and should be defrocked.


To be fair, I don't think he was there to present any case alongside Dawkins, but rather to debate him. I do not know the details as I did not watch the show, but his claim that the Adam and Eve story was a myth was his personal opinion as part of that debate.

He certainly was not on Dawkins side, as greeney points out, they seemed to disagree about everything else.
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