The Black Vault Message Forums

Discover the Truth!        

Religion & Spirituality

The Warning Second Coming Forums

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby at1with0 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:36 pm

OraProNobis wrote:Because you DO NOT believe in Him, is no reason to say we have no proof He exists. It is no reason to come and try to say His existence on earth, His death, and His resurrection did not happen, or to even say that He will not come back to earth, the same way he left.


Did I say that?

At any rate, what perplexes me is when people think that it's the Christian God that has revealed itself to them. I wonder if they were born in another culture, would have similar experiences, and decide that it was Allah that opened their eyes, or something else perhaps. When my eyes were opened, my first guess was the Christian God but I later decided that the source of my perceptions had to be something with less human baggage; it may very well be a version of the Christian God. When people have a second chance, or an awakening, or rebirth, etc., it's convenient to reach for the closest thing the mind can at least somewhat comprehend; having a God spoken of at length in a popular book, a God whose popularity is widespread, to reach out to in those times is convenient.

For me, it was as though I was struck from behind with a two by four, I looked to see who hit me and no one was there. Could it have been the Christian God? Yes, though I do not think it was.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
User avatar
at1with0
 
Posts: 9183
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:55 pm
Location: the coproduct of the amalgam of all structures

Postby humphreys » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:49 pm

OraProNobis wrote:I felt that those who hurt others so seriously would never have to account for it. Please don't take this as i want them to go to hell, because I wish no one to go to hell. But I want truth about situations to be exposed , like 911, and many other events.


Don't you believe that asking God for forgiveness will save them punishment, though?

What happens to all the people who have done terrible things and ask God to forgive them? They get paradise, that's what. And you say you don't want anyone to go to hell, but in your belief system, that's what will happen.

How on earth can this be a better scenario than atheism?

Would you rather a bad person get off scott free, or would you prefer they burn in hell for all eternity? Because I am not a fan of any injustice, but eternal punishment is far more of an injustice than no punishment at all in my opinion.

God is supposed to be just, but his two rulings are either eternal torture, or eternal paradise. What kind of justice system is that?
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
User avatar
humphreys
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:51 pm
Location: Inside your head.

Postby OraProNobis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:52 pm

Would you rather a bad person get off scott free, or would you prefer they burn in hell for all eternity? Because I am not a fan of any injustice, but eternal punishment is far more of an injustice than no punishment at all in my opinion.


God is supposed to be just, but his two rulings are either eternal torture, or eternal paradise. What kind of justice system is that?



Actually you are incorrect about there only being two rulings. Catholics and some other Christians (not sure which ones) believe in a place called purgatory. There is some evidence that this is what could have been referred to as the netherworld in the bible.

Purgatory is a place for spiritual atonement and cleansing. It is a place of suffering, but through prayers, and sacrifices, these souls will eventually got to heaven. Mary told the children of medjugorje that very few souls go directly to heaven. The greatest amount of souls upon death go to purgatory.

There is only one direction from purgatory , and that is eventually heaven, though it has been said that some souls have sent many many more years in purgatory than on this earth, because they had much to do penance for, and atone for.

Purgatory is a doctrine of the Catholic Church. It refers to the state of being after death in which people do penance for sins not atoned for on earth. It’s biblical basis is found in both the Old and New Testaments. Just as the doctrine of purgatory flows from the Catholic understanding of grace, so misconceptions flow from a misunderstanding of grace. Errors concerning this doctrine are most prevalent among Protestants due to their teaching of sola fide


Here is an excerpt taken from an interview with one of the visionaries in medjugorje about heaven ,hell ,and purgatory . I also included what Mary said about the priests, because I struggled with this extremely at some point in my journey of life.
(Excerpts taken from: "The apparitions of Our Lady at Medjugorje", by Svetozar Kraljevic, O.F.M.)

Interview with Mirjana Dragicevic, By Fr. Tomislav Vlasic

Medjugorje, January 10, 1983

T: Mirjana, we have not seen each other for some time, and I would like you to tell me about the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and especially with the events that are connected to you.

M: I have seen the Blessed Virgin Mary for eighteen months now, and feel I know Her very well. I feel she loves me with Her Motherly love, and so I have been able to ask Her about anything I would like to know. I've asked her to explain some things about Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell that were not clear to me. For example, I asked Her how God can be so unmerciful as to throw people into Hell, to suffer forever. I thought: If a person commits a crime and goes to jail, he stays there for a while and then is forgiven - but to Hell, forever? She told me that souls who go to Hell have ceased thinking favorably of God - have cursed Him, more and more. So they've already become a part of Hell, and choose not to be delivered from it.

Then she told me that there are levels in Purgatory: Levels close to Hell and higher and higher toward Heaven. Most people, she said, think many souls are released from Purgatory into Heaven on All Saints' Day, but most souls are taken into Heaven on Christmas Day.

T: Did you ask why God allows Hell?

M: No, I did not. But afterward I had a discussion with my aunt, who told me how merciful God is. So I said I would ask the Madonna how God could......

T: According to what you've said, then; It's simple as this: People who oppose God on earth just continue their existence after death, and oppose God in Hell?

M: Really, I thought if a person goes to Hell....Don't people pray for their salvation? Could God be so unmerciful as not to hear their prayers? Then the Madonna explained it to me. People in Hell do not pray at all; instead, they blame God for everything. In effect, they become one with Hell and they get used to it. They rage against God, and they suffer, but they always refuse to pray to God.

T: To ask Him for salvation?

M: In Hell, they hate Him even more.

T: As for Purgatory, you say that souls who pray frequently are sometimes allowed to communicate, at least by messages, with people on earth, and that they receive the benefits of prayers said on earth?

M: Yes. Prayers that are said on earth for souls who have not prayed for their salvation are applied to souls in purgatory who pray for their salvation.

T: Did the Madonna tell you whether many people go to Hell today?

M: I asked her about that recently, and She said that, today, most people go to purgatory, the next greatest number go to Hell, and only a few go directly to Heaven.

T: Only a few go to Heaven?

M: Yes only a few - the least number - go to Heaven.

T: Did you ask about the conditions for a person to enter Heaven?

M: No I didn't; but, we can probably say what they are. God is not looking for great believers but simply for those who respect their faith and live peacefully, without malice, meanness, falsehood.

T: This is your interpretation, your understanding?

M: Yes. After I talked to the Madonna, I came to that conclusion; No one has to do great miracles or do great penance; merely live a simple, peaceful life.

T: Well, besides Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory, is there anything else new recently?

M: The Madonna told me that I should tell the people that many in our time judge their faith by their priests. If a priest is not holy, they conclude that there is no God. She said: "You do not go to church to judge the priest, to examine his personal life. You go to church to pray and to hear the word of God from the priest." This must be explained to the people, because many turn away from the faith because of priests.
User avatar
OraProNobis
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Postby OraProNobis » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:20 am

From March 29th, 2012

http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/j ... ucifixion/

Jesus reveals details of His Crucifixion
Thursday, March 29th, 2012 @ 01:15 pm



My dearly beloved daughter My time for more suffering will come about as My Passion on the cross will be commemorated.

No man understands the extent of My suffering during My crucifixion or the way in which I was scourged.

My scourging was the worst. I was beaten savagely by ten men and every inch of My body was slashed.

The flesh on My back was torn and My shoulder blades were visible.

I could barely stand and one eye was bruised and crushed.

I could only see through My left eye.

By the time they took Me before Pontius Pilate and placed the crown of thorns on My head I could barely stand up.

They then stripped Me bare before placing a short red garment over My head and then placed a palm branch in my right hand.

Each thorn was like a needle so sharp was it. One of these thorns also pierced My right eye which left Me barely able to see.

I lost so much blood that I vomited and was so dizzy that when I began My ascent to Calvary I could not hold the cross.

I fell so many times that it took hours before I reached the top of the hill.

I was scourged and whipped each step of the way.

My body was bloody all over and covered with a thick sweat produced by a scorching sun.

I fainted a few times.

Much as this was painful and agonising the most frightening of all was the hatred shown to Me, not just by the adults along the way, but by young children who kicked Me because they were following their parents’ example.

The screams that poured out from their mouths and the hatred was nothing compared to the fear they had of Me.

Because, behind it all, they were still not sure whether or not I was, in fact, the Messiah they were awaiting for so long.

It was easier, therefore, to hate Me, denounce Me rather than accept Me for that would have meant that they would have had to change their ways.

My most agonising moment was when I lay on the ground on My side, having being kicked in the back again, and saw My beloved Mother looking at Me.

She was heart broken and had to be held up by two of My disciples.

I could only see her through the one remaining eye and I could not bear to watch her torment.

The jeers, screams and roars from the crowds of hundreds could be felt from the ground I lay on and it took six hundred soldiers to organise and supervise the crucifixion of Myself and six others.

I was the main focus of their attention and the others did not suffer like I did.

When My wrists, at the base of My thumbs, were nailed to the cross I could no longer feel.

My body was so battered and bruised that I had gone into shock.

My shoulders were dislocated and My arms were torn out of their sockets.

The worst physical damage was inflicted on My body before I was nailed to the cross.

I let out no scream.

No protest.

Only a whisper.

This infuriated My executioners who wanted a reaction to satisfy their lusts.

I never engaged with them for to do so would have meant that I would have had to engage with Satan and his demons who infested their souls.

This is why their viciousness towards Me was so intense.

I was hanging on the cross for five hours.

The sun was scorching and without clouds to help reduce the burning of My skin

As soon as I took My last breath My Father sent forth black clouds as well as thunder and lightning.

The storm that took place was of such a frightening magnitude and so sudden that My spectators were left in no doubt at that stage that I was, indeed, the Saviour that had been sent by God the Father.

I reveal this to you My daughter as a gift to you in return for the huge act of suffering you have offered Me.

Tell My children that I do not regret My Passion on the Cross.

What I do regret is that My sacrifice has been forgotten and that so many deny that My crucifixion took place.

Many have no idea as to what I had to suffer as many of My apostles did not witness My climb to Calvary.

What hurts Me today is that so many deny Me still.

My appeal to you, My followers, is do not allow My Crucifixion to go to waste.

I died for ALL sins including those committed today.

I want and I need to save even those who deny Me even today.


Your Beloved Saviour

Jesus Christ
User avatar
OraProNobis
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Postby OraProNobis » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:26 am

I regret to have to say this, but after much prayer, and careful examination of some of the words in these messages , I am having some serious doubt as to the authenticity of them.

i apologize sincerely to anyone , if I have lead you astray , because never was it my intention to do that.

I only wanted you to be prepared for events that may confuse and surprise you, such as the 3 days of darkness, and to not be afraid to open yourselves up to the mercy of Christ. ( I still feel this way)

I still believe this purification will take place, as it has been mentioned in many messages to visionaries, dating back to early 1900's.

I am not sure as to whether I will be posting any more of these messages, and I will continue to pray to Jesus , and ask that through His mercy He will reveal what is of Him , and what is not.

Once again , I sincerely apologize for any unintentional misleading i have may have inadvertently caused.
User avatar
OraProNobis
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Postby humphreys » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:54 am

OraProNobis wrote:I regret to have to say this, but after much prayer, and careful examination of some of the words in these messages , I am having some serious doubt as to the authenticity of them.


Takes guts to admit you may be wrong, well done :thumbup:
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
User avatar
humphreys
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:51 pm
Location: Inside your head.

Postby greeney2 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:14 am

OraProNobis and Humphreys, you both forgot one other possibility besides Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. That is repentance, remorse, Confession of your sins while you are still living. We all have redemption while we are still living, a belief of all Christians having before death. Catholics believe in Purgatory, where other Christian religions do not. A waiting place, so to speak, and probably where you learn about the term Mericiful God. So if you are an atheist, better lean twards being a little Catholic, even 5% would help. :lol:
greeney2
 
Posts: 9687
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby OraProNobis » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:16 am

humphreys wrote:
OraProNobis wrote:I regret to have to say this, but after much prayer, and careful examination of some of the words in these messages , I am having some serious doubt as to the authenticity of them.


Takes guts to admit you may be wrong, well done :thumbup:


Thank you. I appreciate that Humphreys.

My pride seems like nothing to lose when real truth is at stake.

I would rather scream to the whole world that I am a fool for being mislead,and misleading others , than pretend that something I know in my heart is wrong to be truth..

Actually , I am leaning towards being certain it is not true simply because of the last message,( which I did not post) .

It alludes to Jesus not having to die , if the Jewish people would have just accepted Him the first time, which is absolute rubbish in a scriptural sense.

I have been asking Jesus everyday to show me and others if these messages are not of Him , and this last message really did it for me.

Here are the exact words , that would never EVER come from the mouth of Jesus

If they had accepted Me I would have reigned on earth and the whole of humanity could have enjoyed eternal salvation.
.

The whole of humanity would could never have enjoyed eternal salvation unless He died for us.

What can I say? :Doh:

except :oops: I am so sorry... :?

I know there is a lesson I have learned here in some way. :(
User avatar
OraProNobis
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Postby OraProNobis » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:28 am

greeney2 wrote:OraProNobis and Humphreys, you both forgot one other possibility besides Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. That is repentance, remorse, Confession of your sins while you are still living. We all have redemption while we are still living, a belief of all Christians having before death. Catholics believe in Purgatory, where other Christian religions do not. A waiting place, so to speak, and probably where you learn about the term Mericiful God. So if you are an atheist, better lean twards being a little Catholic, even 5% would help. :lol:


I think I mentioned repentance Greeney, though I think at times the penance we do here on earth is not sufficient.

I'm a firm believer in not just saying your sins to a priest , but also acknowledging those sins and asking for forgiveness against the person sinned against. If you talked a bunch of gossip about your neighbor, and let it continue around the neighborhood, until the story is way out of proportion to the reality of an event ,and it deeply hurts your neighbor, you need to go to the neighbor and say you are sorry for causing that rumour to spread, and you'll do your best to set it right.

I think going to a priest and confessing secretly, then saying 3 hail marys is a cheap way out of really showing you are sorry.

You have to admit greeney, the penance is a bit of a joke. Heck I've even told some priests they need to give me at least a whole Rosary :lol:

I remember reading about a priest who was known to give really severe penances, but actually he was just being fair.

Sort of like making your kid who stole from the corner store, go in there and fess up to what he did, and offer to pay for what he stole.

Thats why I think that many souls still do penance in purgatory even for sins confessed. Because they haven't really done proper penance for them on earth.

Just my opinion. :?
User avatar
OraProNobis
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:57 pm

Previous

Return to Religion & Spirituality

  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 292 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests