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Postby OraProNobis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:54 pm

humphreys wrote:
OraProNobis wrote:Please read it carefully Humphreys, as well as all the other messages given to that mystic.


Let's just pretend I read it, and did not find it convincing, it saves us both time that way.


I sense someone running away from the truth. Afraid to look at the valid explanation of the questions he asks. :naughty:

Perhaps you should refrain from asking questions, if you're afraid to look at the answers. ;)
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Postby humphreys » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:30 pm

OraProNobis wrote:
humphreys wrote:
OraProNobis wrote:Please read it carefully Humphreys, as well as all the other messages given to that mystic.


Let's just pretend I read it, and did not find it convincing, it saves us both time that way.


I sense someone running away from the truth. Afraid to look at the valid explanation of the questions he asks. :naughty:

Perhaps you should refrain from asking questions, if you're afraid to look at the answers. ;)


How many should I read before I decide they're bogus?

Should I keep coming here and reading every one you post for the rest of my life, or should I, at some point, just accept that they're all going to be practically the same, devoid of any actual evidence and indistinguishable from some guy who is either just pretending, or otherwise deludedly thinks he is channeling Jesus?

If it makes you feel better I just wasted my time reading the latest. Yep, same old crap.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby greeney2 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:40 pm

How many should I read before I decide they're bogus?

Should I keep coming here and reading every one you post for the rest of my life, or should I, at some point, just accept that they're all going to be practically the same, devoid of any actual evidence and indistinguishable from some guy who is either just pretending, or otherwise deludedly thinks he is channeling Jesus?

If it makes you feel better I just wasted my time reading the latest. Yep, same old crap.


How many proofs does it take?
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Postby at1with0 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:42 pm

greeney2 wrote:How many proofs does it take?


One would suffice. Know of any?
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby OraProNobis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:12 pm

at1with0 wrote:
greeney2 wrote:How many proofs does it take?


One would suffice. Know of any?


For those who refuse to open their hearts, minds, and eyes, no proof will suffice.

Perhaps you have been given proof, in a spiritual way at some point in your journey of life at1with0 , and for some reason we are not privy to, or that you yourself ,do not understand , you are refusing to acknowledge it.

My heartfelt prayer for you is that you open your heart and your mind to The Holy Trinity, and ask that you be lead to the TRUTH , and to the will of the heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus for the remainder of your life.
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Postby at1with0 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:58 pm

OraProNobis wrote:For those who refuse to open their hearts, minds, and eyes, no proof will suffice.

Perhaps you have been given proof, in a spiritual way at some point in your journey of life at1with0 , and for some reason we are not privy to, or that you yourself ,do not understand , you are refusing to acknowledge it.

My heartfelt prayer for you is that you open your heart and your mind to The Holy Trinity, and ask that you be lead to the TRUTH , and to the will of the heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus for the remainder of your life.


What can I say? I'll attempt to provide my opinions here in the hope that I don't leave anything out. :shifty:

True proof is objective and not subject to frail human modes of self-conviction or self-convincing. For those who let themselves be owned by their biases, no amount of convincing will suffice, yes. That goes for everyone reading this be they Christian, Agnostic, Pantheist, or what not.

True proof may not be known as such because of how arbitrarily one can define a true proof. A logician might define a true proof to be a sequence of statements with the important property that each statement in the sequence of statements, in some sense, follows from the preceding statements. How one defines "follows from" perhaps is the crux of the matter. "Socrates is a man" some might say follows from the statement "All men are mortal and Socrates is a man." (This is merely an application of a variant of the logical rule of inference known as modus ponens.)

A true proof in other avenues of thought is, of course, not going to be exactly the same as a logician's definition of true proof which I point out just to add evidence to the statement that one's definition of a true proof is somewhat arbitrary.

Given the arbitrariness of what constitutes a true proof, there is no ultimately true proof.

This principle is not just valid in math but in science, the courtroom, the court of public opinion, and in philosophy and theology. Different kinds of evidence will confirm or not confirm a proposition in different fields. Asking someone to defend the existence of God or prove God exists will lead to the question of "prove according to whom?" The arbitrary nature of true proof leads to quite the conundrum.

As a slight diversion, the reader may find this site entertaining, especially if they've seen someone really believe they have proved anything with any of these tactics
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Proof

So it all comes down to what is convincing and what fails to convince. For me, it started with a dream. I was an agnostic and prayed anyway. I prayed that God would reveal itself to me. The God that did turned out to be a pantheist's God. I've had many semi-peak moments and a few full-blown peak moments that convinced me that God, whether I understood it or not as such, existed in some form or another. It took a while to figure out how to make this not a contradiction, to figure out how to put my perception into context.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby OraProNobis » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:16 pm

Thank you for your explanation at1with0 . It helps to understand that you have prayed , and you believe God answered , and showed Himself to you. That is what is your truth, because you have seen it as such, or you choose to see it as such.

I have prayed for God to reveal Himself to me as well, and what I was drawn to was this unexplainable gentle love, of a God who came to earth, to teach, to heal, to draw people back to living a good and loving Holy life . A God that was willing to die for these souls , so all their iniquities could be forgiven .

I have prayed to Jesus, and He has answered my prayers, about many things.

This is the God I want in my heart when I take my dying breath, and this is the God who has healed many, and performed some extraordinary miracles on this planet that defy logic and science.

Because you DO NOT believe in Him, is no reason to say we have no proof He exists. It is no reason to come and try to say His existence on earth, His death, and His resurrection did not happen, or to even say that He will not come back to earth, the same way he left.
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Postby frrostedman » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Ora, do you remember when you were not a believer? I wonder if you, like me, felt like there was something was out there but didn't know how to access it or "pray" to it? I remember that feeling very distinctly.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby humphreys » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:29 am

greeney2 wrote:How many proofs does it take?


You didn't answer my question before.

Does it make sense to you that God would require x number of people to not eat for a day in order to prevent the one world currency?

Second question. Will you personally be fasting as requested?

Last question. Are you personally convinced this guy is channeling Jesus and that these are Jesus' words being displayed in this thread?

Because I don't think you really believe that, and you're just being argumentative because you can't stand actually agreeing with me on something.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby OraProNobis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:17 am

frrostedman wrote:Ora, do you remember when you were not a believer? I wonder if you, like me, felt like there was something was out there but didn't know how to access it or "pray" to it? I remember that feeling very distinctly.



What I remember distinctly about the times when I wasn't sure if God existed , was the immense feeling of loss of hope. All my life when I saw injustices and was a victim of them, I always fell back to the belief that God knows what is true, God knows what happened, and it will be set straight someday. Losing that hope, and thinking that all the victims of lies, and scams,and serious injustices, would never have their day of justification, at least in the sense of others knowing that they were innocent , was painful.

Today I understand how to offer up my sufferings for the conversion of others , and though I see myself and others being victim of lies and hurtful gossip, and schemes to discredit, there is a peace that all truth will be revealed at some point.

I have no problem with others saying the truth about my transgressions , because I have done things which I need to be accountable for. But at the same time , I have confessed and been absolved of many things, and if isn't directly related to a person, it is basically just throwing someones sins back in their face, and that is not something God wants of us, especially between Christian brothers and sisters.

I am also learning to forgive my enemies and pray for them, though some days that is easier than others.

What I remember most about being an unbeliever would have to be that terrible sadness of a sense of loss of hope, and a bitterness that grew from that , because I felt that those who hurt others so seriously would never have to account for it. Please don't take this as i want them to go to hell, because I wish no one to go to hell. But I want truth about situations to be exposed , like 911, and many other events.

I want souls to repent and ask for forgiveness, but I want the truth to be known.
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