The Black Vault

Paul and his followers borrowed beliefs from pagans and other religion, to win converts. He went against what Jesus taught while he was on earth, and preached his own version of it which contradict the message of Christ.

Compare what Jesus said about following the law and what Paul said concerning it.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-19

Paul's dreams, however, have broken commandments right and left. There is so much of what Jesus did during his lifetime that his followers have now totally neglected, not because Jesus told them to break the commandments, but because Paul would later tell them to break them upon the authority of the visions he was receiving.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law - though not being myself under the law - that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law - not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ - that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." (I Corinthians. 9:19-25)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRuUynC9i4

I don't know about anyone else, but, I am not inclined to trust any information about Christianity, put forth by an occultist/disembodied head who takes 25 cents to give you your horoscope at the local carnival.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law - though not being myself under the law - that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law - not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ - that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." (I Corinthians. 9:19-25)

Kind of goes against all that not being "of the world" philosophy, if interpreted the way you intend. Although I'd venture to say that this is reflected in youth ministries, in that youth pastors and Christian bands/groups go where the youth are. This isn't necessarily a bad thing and it doesn't equate to being "of the world". It just means that they go out and spread The Word, "Witness" as they are taught to do. They aren't being "of the world" any more than the person volunteering in the soup kitchens at shelters, "homeless".

Good grief!
The "Paul vs Jesus" argument rears its ugly head once again. It is almost as predictable as Old Faithful.

frrostedman wrote:I don't know about anyone else, but, I am not inclined to trust any information about Christianity, put forth by an occultist/disembodied head who takes 25 cents to give you your horoscope at the local carnival.

HAHAHA

I love it

zoltan2 wrote:Paul and his followers borrowed beliefs from pagans and other religion, to win converts. He went against what Jesus taught while he was on earth, and preached his own version of it which contradict the message of Christ.

Where is the support for this?

Which beliefs are we talking about that were borrowed?

I would say the early Roman Catholic Church is more to blaim for the Pagan beliefs entertwined with the teachings of Jesus.

It is well known that the Romans of the time interwove their own beliefs with those of their Christian slaves..to create what was to become the first official Christian religion

I don't agree with this premise that Paul was an agent for Rome or any other Pagan group...to infiltrate and turn Christianity away from what it was intended to be.

I can tell you with certainty that Christianity was not to be stuck to the Olde Testament...the Law of Moses..for it is obvious that the Hebrews/Jews were to do two things...which they did accomplish.
They were to preserve God's Word...and out of a certain line was to come the Messiah. Everything else they were a bunch of goof ups and often did exactly what they were not to do...go after strange gods and even infiltrated themselves ...paganism onto the Law of Moses as if it was the Law of Moses ..when it was no such thing.

It was the Jews themselves who were infiltrated to a doctrine and dogma which was not of the Law of Moses. The Hebrew leadership tried to overlay these pagan traditions of men on top of the Law of Moses when it was no such thing.

Paul as a Pharisee would be well aware of what the Olde Testament said..including the Torah.

Paul would also as a very educated Hebrew/Jew...know the difference in the Law of Moses and what had changed as a result of the cross. For Paul was educated in the Olde Testament by the best...and being himself a Pharisee trained in the inner temples...and by some of the best. Paul was anything but ignorant.

We have the record of Paul himself rebuking the other Apostles at meal time by separating from the gentiles. They did not realize that all that law keeping was over and done away with as a result of the cross. The traditions of men.
This was and still is why the Law is of bondage ..with her children.

The other evidence is that Paul ...like Jesus Christ was not liked by his own people ..Jews In the flesh. They even plotted to kill him...as they did with Jesus Christ.



Now ...let us look at 1 Corinthians 9:19-25...from the O/P.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law - though not being myself under the law - that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law - not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ - that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." (I Corinthians. 9:19-25)

and now here is 1 Corinthians in it's entirety from the King James Bible.
Notice down at the bottom..verses 19-25...that some words are missing. It is not in the O/P as it is in the King James.

1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Whenever I see a post like the O/P ..I instinctively know to go to the King James Bible and then check several passages before and after to get the full context.
The verses have been significantly changed in the versions quoted by the O/P.

Also something to know about the parts the O/P is quoting out of context about Paul and his dealings with the Jews verses the Gentiles.


It would do Paul or any of the other Apostles little good to do alot of extensive preaching and teaching from the Olde Testament when speaking to Gentiles...for they would not be familiar with the Law of Moses. Hence when we see Paul speaking to peoples/Hebrews/Jews..he would naturally use more Olde Testament...because these peoples would know of what he was speaking..having been raised in it from birth. The Book of Hebrews is just such an teaching and preaching epistle. More Olde Testament is used here. Hence it fits the discription of Paul being a Jew around Jews because they would understand it more completely than would Gentiles. It is indeed that simple.

However..it is not something I have heard many preachers teaching to their flocks in order to give a good perspective on the history going on in those times.
I think many preachers are at fault for not making this clear to their peoples.

Knowing this about these times and the people involved helps greatly.

Once I understood this about the people and the history...and then read my King James Bible..this began to manifest itself clearly.

In his attempt to get away from the Jews plotting to kill him..Paul appeals to Rome as a Roman and is by this brought before Caesar after a long journey. But He does not stop teaching and preaching along the way.
For Paul is able to give us a much better understanding of the difference between the Olde and New Testaments by his Epistles. Of all the Apostles..Paul..our Apostle to the Gentiles..is the one with enough understanding and knowledge to do this contrast for us in a way not quite covered by the other Apostles.

For we are not to be under the Bondage of the Olde Testament ...not after the Bondwoman and her child..Ishmael..but in Issac is the seed to be called.

All I have to know when I hear preaching and teaching ..is enough to tell if they are teaching Ishmael or Issac. Bondage..or Grace.

Thanks,
Orangetom