Kyprian wrote:Not quite...looks like someone read the wrong books, because you didn't post Scriptures, you posted someone else's interpretations thereof. Before I begin, I am not catholic..but I apparently have a better grasp of exegesis. First of, the Bishop of Rome's title means "God's Vicar on earth". Nowhere does it say "in place of". His job is to point to Christ. Sadly, since you seem to be getting most of your info from The Two Babylons, a book that was debunked decades ago, it's no wonder this is unknown to you.
The quote from the Apocalypse of St. John has nothing to do with the Pope, a word which merely means "papa", as term of endearment. Oh, you thought that was title? Silly goose. That quote has to do with those who willingly "take the Mark", ie, willfully reject true worship in order to worship a false god. In the first century, Jewish rabbis wore phylacteries about their forehead and forearm - little boxes containing scarps of Scripture. This was to show to Whom they belonged. The Mark is a similar, more spiritual, idea. It's not something to terrify Catholics with...they worship Christ.
1 John 2:18 speaks of "many antichrists". Nowhere does it say one is in the world until the end. 1 John 4:3 makes a curious statement : that whosever denies Christ is God is of antichrist. Funny, since Catholics, who are Christian, have been proclaiming this fact since their inception in the 11th century.
2 Thess. 2:8 also fails to mention that this is they same guy since the first century - it simply states that the Man of Wickedness will be destroyed at Christ's Coming. Still nada on it being the guy in the funny hat.
Your next quote has to do with the so-called Third Temple. Now, out of curiosity, when the Bishop of Rome already has a nice church to work from, would he move everything to a church that is not even Christian? That's like bin laden decided he's going to work out of Westboro Baptist.
"There is only one possibility that can fulfill all these prophesies. And the pope is the only possible position that fulfills all of these scriptural prophesies." Not quite. Nero did a bang up job in AD 70, as did a few other contenders down the years. None of them were the Pope, by the way.
"Roman Catholics see the pope as Christ’s vicar, which means, substitute. " There is a nifty thing called a dictionary, let's see what it says, shall we? Yes, substitute is a meaning, as is deputy, member of the clergy or priest. And, just to clarify, vicar in the sense of substitute does mean one taking the place of worhip, but rather, serving as a temporal substitute in the office of the church, much like a substitute teacher stands in for the real one. A vicar does not "replace" Christ, he stands in for him and points the way to him.
As for the "call no man father" bit, this is a little more complex. It is referring to not calling anyone father in the sense of superiority and godhood. Otherwise, all dads are screwed. God is our Father, yes, but it is possible to call a loved priest "papa" as a term of endearment, as a sign of respect. The priest ( and by extension, the Pope) is a sort of spiritual father, leading us to Christ and His mercy, not "hogging the glory" for himself.
It is teachings like this, ill-reasoned and full of venom towards other believers, that earn Evangelicals a bad name. And, btw, not one of those either.
Good evening, and God bless.
Before claiming that I read the wrong books you should reevaluate things that do not seem to jive with what is said.Yours quotes:
Not quite...looks like someone read the wrong books, because you didn't post Scriptures, you posted someone else's interpretations thereof. Before I begin, I am not catholic..but I apparently have a better grasp of exegesis. First of, the Bishop of Rome's title means "God's Vicar on earth". Nowhere does it say "in place of". His job is to point to Christ
. Sadly, since you seem to be getting most of your info from The Two Babylons
, a book that was debunked decades ago, it's no wonder this is unknown to you.Zoltan replies:
The facts: In Latin Vicarius Filii Dei is translated by Vicar or Representative of the Son of God. It was first used in a phrase in the forged medieval Donation of Constantine to refer to Saint Peter.
If you would read properly my quote:
………. The pope’s Latin title is Vicarius Filii Dei, which means "Substitute for the Son of God." In the Greek, "antichrist" simply means "in the place of Christ" Thus, by very definition, the pope IS the antichrist. I am saying that
……………..The translation from lLatin Vicarius Filii Dei is substitute /or representative of the son of God.
I studied Latin and took a Classical Course with the Catholic priests in a private boarding school.Were you are confused and wrong my Dear, is that I never said that Vicarius Filii Dei says or implies in place of or posing as.
The in place or posing as was attributed to y word of the Greek Word antichrist which = to posing as messiah/or the anointed oneYou jumped the gun in your haste to prove me wrong.
In the Strong's Greek Lexicon the definition for "anti":
473. anti an-tee' a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to):--for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
The problem silly goose is that according to Christian dogma, there is supposedly someone who will come to power and will be AGAINST them (the Christians), and so they refer to this person as the anti-Christ; however, [color=#80FF40][b]as you can see, the Greek Lexicon does not agree with that definition.[/color]
Antichrist" is the English translation of the Koine Greek ἀντίχριστος (pronounced [anˈtikʰristos]). It is made up of two roots: αντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). "Αντί" can mean not only "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of","Χριστός", translated "Christ", is Greek for the Hebrew "Messiah" meaning "anointed,"
Christ is not Jesus last Name.
Christ in Hebrew and in Greek means anointed.
Therefore anti Christ means posing as the anointed one. [b][u]Yours Quotes:
The quote from the Apocalypse of St. John has nothing to do with the Pope, a word which merely means "papa", as term of endearment. Oh, you thought that was title? Silly goose. That quote has to do with those who willingly "take the Mark", ie, willfully reject true worship in order to worship a false god.
In the first century, Jewish rabbis wore phylacteries about their forehead and forearm - little boxes containing scarps of Scripture. This was to show to Whom they belonged. The Mark is a similar, more spiritual, idea. It's not something to terrify Catholics with...they worship Christ
Again I never said that and again you jumped the gun sister. If I an referring to the Vatican it as nothing to do with the word papa pope title or what ever you are trying to say.
It is because of the following verses in the Revelations of St -John when he says and predicts what is going to happen in a very far future.The “great whore”, of the biblical book of Revelation in the chapter 17 and 18:
He is referring to a place in time and of a specific entity and kings and nations . Do not forget that these revelations are giving to him by an angle Greek word messenger ( An extraterrestrial Messenger ).
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. ["Fornication" is interpreted/translated as "idolatry" in the Amplified Bible (AMP)]
17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written a mystery: BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [King James Version; the New International Version uses "prostitutes" instead of "harlots"].
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sat. [King James Version; the New International Version Bible uses "hills" instead of "mountains"].
17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space.
17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
17:15 And he said unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sat, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.Well this does sound to me like the Papacy, the Vatican and all the political leaders bowing to the pope and the Catholic Church.
IMO there is only one great city that reigns over the kings of the earth and that is Vatican City.
And who is the one that killed millions of people ,Christians and others during its Catholic inquisitions and crusades if not the Vatican.
And who is the woman arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
The VaticanAs for your mark of the beast as a spiritual idea is wrong.
If you read what is written in revelations John states that in the future the Mark of the Beast described in Revelations chapter 13 is one of the most interesting portions of Bible Prophecy. First here's the actual verses:
And [the Antichrist] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save [except] he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:16-18 KJV
So according to this passage in the Bible the Antichrist will force everyone to accept a mark in either the right hand or forehead of the wearer.
Without this mark you won't be able to buy or sell.
Well today the Chip implant definitely fits the bill of a mark that enables you to buy or sell. If so, then this is the first generation technologically that is capable of such a feat. Not only is the this technology being tested and implemented, it's also being accepted by society Hardly a week goes by without mention of it in the news media, science journals or elsewhere.
So John in his revelations giving to him by an Angel that is able to see the future is predicting there will be some antichrist ( meaning posing as messiah/meaning an anointed one who will enforce some type of individual micro chipping to by and sell.
In the meantime the micro chip can have all your identity. medical records, financial records and now you can already buy with a microchip.
Cash and plastic cards will be obsolete.
By the way I never read the book the Two Babylons and you have the nerve to call me silly goose and my post is not full of venom but opinions that can have some validity because I am not blind.
Wake up sister