The Black Vault

OrangeTom I'm surprized at you that you critisize the public school education, emotions, and television education so much, but accepted Zoltans internet copy and paste education, that took a 1 minute search, and he probably didn't read a word of it, as long as it fit his anti Catholic agenda.

greeney2 wrote:OrangeTom I'm surprized at you that you critisize the public school education, emotions, and television education so much, but accepted Zoltans internet copy and paste education, that took a 1 minute search, and he probably didn't read a word of it, as long as it fit his anti Catholic agenda.

Oh no Greeny2,

Most of this will never be spoken about in public school. I had to go to non public school...non authorized sources to find this information's out about the Catholic Church History. I believe much of what he posted because I also know certain aspects of the history related to what he stated..and the events.

The Catholics have no monopoly on this type of ignorance or re writing of history...being pharisees ..only they are Hellenic pharisees ....Greek pharisees.

The Judaic Pharisees are also today writing and re writing history to box everyone into their default settings and stop individual thinking. Just like Public education.
Anyone who dissents, protests, or describes anything outside of what they want or decide is labeled Anti Semitic, Anti Israel, or whatever label is used or misused today. I don't approve of these type guilt settings.

Rome is no different.

And now today..we have another control group in public office where anyone who disagrees with them or disputes the authorized version is automatically a Racist...or extreme right wing ...etc etc.etc. Very Catholic and very Semitic of them. Same technique used and misused. Which is also why I tend to associate much of politics with a devout and zealous religion.
I don't approve of these type guilt settings as well.

I find it humorous as well as ironic that one religion ..politics ...wants to dictate the terms of their religion onto another religion concerning contraception..don't you??? I call that pretty extreme between two Ishmaelite religions.
I am still thinking on how to describe both of these groups in the right religious guilt settings. But I think you acute sufficient to follow the sexual irony.

Thanks,
Orangetom

greeney2 wrote:OrangeTom I'm surprized at you that you critisize the public school education, emotions, and television education so much, but accepted Zoltans internet copy and paste education, that took a 1 minute search, and he probably didn't read a word of it, as long as it fit his anti Catholic agenda.

You are so full of fouweeeeeee..................................

I read everything I post dodobird

zoltan2 wrote:

greeney2 wrote:OrangeTom I'm surprized at you that you critisize the public school education, emotions, and television education so much, but accepted Zoltans internet copy and paste education, that took a 1 minute search, and he probably didn't read a word of it, as long as it fit his anti Catholic agenda.

You are so full of fouweeeeeee..................................

I read everything I post dodobird

Now Now..Zoltan2,

I don't agree with certain of what Greeny2 posts...but I try not to get down to labeling and stereotyping in the way which would drag the boards into baseness...by labeling or name calling.

I am however particularly hard, and I will admit, on Public Schooling.

By Public Schooling or Public Education I mean a television and movie education majoring mostly on emotions and not thinking or an understanding of history. Emotions and drama...guilt settings or guilt techniques are default settings to prevent thinking...to prevent people from reading any history.

History I have found is not a very well taught subject today...and many important parts of our grasp of history today are missing from our educations.

For Example I only recently found out that there have been significant oil and natural gas discoveries by offshore drilling in the Mediterranean Sea ...off Libya..Egypt and up the coast to the Gaza Strip...off Israel and up the coast to Lebanon and Syria. The very places where all this so called freedom movement is taking place..the Arab Spring or whatever they are calling it in the news.

What seems to be happening is that these places are being set up to have very repressive governments by aid from the west. The West and their proxies are putting in Muslim Brotherhood type governments and the goal seems to be sending these nations back into time..to keep the resources off the marketplace, in the ground, and competitors out.

Remember when people were saying that we should get Iraqi oil and it would help with our oil shortage and price issues. Didn't happen did it. We went into Iraq to bring the Iraqi oil economy up to 21st century standards at taxpayer expense and now that this has been achieved we are getting out ..just as we did in Vietnam with the oil there..on and off shore. We went into Iraq to keep the oil off the marketplace...and competitors out.

But none of this is being covered by our news media or history books.

Nonetheless...I don't care to let a board degenerate to the baseness of labeling and name calling on a personal level.
Up to you Zoltan2...you are driving your bus..
Just a suggestion.

But I am aware of the controlled and often phony media as well as the phoniness of what is in our history books and by this ...Public Education.

It looks to me as if you know enough history to step out of being easily boxed in. What you find often is that others will try to label you into a box by prevailing politics or guilt techniques. Hence you need not be so easily baited to emotional type responses. Stick to the history..and what you know. Dont let others bait you to emotional labeling. There is already enough of that on these threads.

Once again..just a suggestion.

Thanks,
Orangetom

With all due respect OT, you do your share of labeling, over end over, and many people have called you on it. Your may not stoop to the hardcore namecalling and vile rants Zoltan has when he was Tichen, but you are condesending and insulting in a smug but polite manner, the way you stereotype public education, which seems to be everyone exept you.

I also beg to differ with Tichen/Zoltan becasue in exchanges with him he looks up and finds, long endless, copy and pasted rant, about the Catholic Church, in a time frame it would be impossible to read at all. Some have happend within 2 minutes or less, so the point I raised about the internet education, is definatly a valid claim. That is the bulk of almost everything on these message boards. People find it, and copy and paste it, and it becomes truth, even if its totally fabricated. They do not read any of it, if the flavor is supporting anti-anything that fits their agenda, its posted. Others read 2 sentences of it, and swallow it hook, line and sinker, and they never read it.

That is the misuse, and ignorance of the internet. Nothing is verified, and everything become Gosple. It gets passed along like wildfire, and like old western book, the legend becomes fact. You can not find origional pictures forinstnace of things like the WTC the days after, so much has been photoshopped, copied and pasted, over and over, nobody knows whats real of not. That is your internet education, no accountability, no sourses, and no verification of facts. No way of really knowing what things are modified, edited, or photoshopped. It amounts to a written rumor mill, and every bit as much gossup and the coffee machine at work. With every exchange the story morphs and changes just a little. Mr. Zoltan/Tichen and I have had this conversation before, concerning his posting of 3 different photoshopped verions of different missiles all with the same claim. Posted all over the WWW, people who do not know better look at it, and make a false decision, from things that are total lies. His response was not caring and insisting on some ridiculous excuse, just as he did when I caught him as Tichen lying about a Catholic abuse story.

Greeny2,

Thanks for your response to my post.

I agree..you have the same problems with the Internet that you have with the media before the Internet was around.

Before the Internet you had mostly the media controlling and directing what the public was allowed to see..and know. In newspapers, on the radio, on televisions this was the case.

I began to learn this when I got my first shortwave set..how big was the paper curtain over a supposedly free people. I began to learn of things which would send me to the public library to check them out and on my own connect dots. And I found out many of the lines were there ..capable of being connected by dots.

The other thing that helped was when a friend of mine quit where I work and went to a big city newspaper to work the graveyard shift while finishing his schooling.
One of the things he would do in the middle of the night was take a look at the teletypes to see what was coming in from the various news agencies. Also talk to some of the free lance reporters coming in to sell their stories.
He was to go on to tell me how little news actually got into a newspaper because of the political slant of the top newspaper peoples.
Like the television and radio...they too would filter the news.

So too it is with public education and particularly with topics like I posted on the other thread about Just weights and measures and this relationship to Godly principles and practices ..compared to ungodly principles and practices.

No one sees what we do.

So too ..is my understanding of the workings of the RCC. However to be fair...they are not the only group like this. They too have competition in the "No one sees what we do category." There are others.

It is just that if you are willing to read the history ..the RCC has a much longer pedigree at this "No One Sees What We Do" template than do most governments.

The problem I see...is that if you think this through carefully...you can claim alot of things about the RCC..but ignorance is not one of them. For the Schools backed by the RCC have high education/academic standards. Notre Dame, Loyala University, Georgetown et al. I believe their education standards are significantly higher than many many public/government schools...always have been.
The people I have met who spent a significant amount of time going to Catholic Schools seem to have a higher grasp of the English Language than do many of us public school folks. Even of other languages as well.

Hence I am prone to say ..ignorance is not one of their problems in the RCC.

Oh...and I am not familiar with Zoltan2 by the name Tichen so you have me at an advantage there.

My point here is that the problem with the copy and paste going on in controlling views is nothing new. It is just now available to the public where as before home computers..it was in the hands mostly of those who could afford the technology and controls over information.
But if you wanted to take the time to dig for information's through the many and varied sources back then it could be found. With much more effort but it could be found.

And I found much of this information's beginning with the death of that Pope who only lasted about a month. As I recall his name was John Paul the 1st and succeeded Pope Paul VIth.

The book as I recall was titled ..."In God's Name" by David Yallop.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Name-Investi ... 0552132888

What this book did for me was to lead me down certain paths of history by chasing certain details which were not ordinarily found in most history books or in the media.
What it also did was awaken me to religious wars and conflicts going on between Occult groups..today...without the pubic being aware of them...by design.
The Propaganda 2 connections with world banking..P2 as it is sometimes called.

It was also a shock at the time to learn that there were brothels in Rome with several of the Popes to cater to the clergy exclusively.

Also in the book was the introduction to the history of how many other Popes gave up the ghost in suspicious circumstances.

Nonetheless there was a great deal of historical information's to be found there and elsewhere to which the public is seldom allowed to know...and for what I think are political/control reasons.

And I believe the RCC is not the only group under this umbrella..there are others.

This misuse and ignorance was going on long before the Internet as far as I am concerned and believe. The Internet only levels the playing field and puts the ability to the ordinary person to let views and thinking expand.
I also believe this free expansion of information's and views is a threat to someone out there who still wants this knowledge controlled.
Hence the talk and efforts to more closely monitor and control the Internet by insecure governments over their peoples.

It is up to us to think through what we believe on every topic. But access to information's is key in being able to even get enough to connect the dots. Without access ..you still have the controlled and rigged system of before the home computer.

I do not agree with all that is out here...and there is way to much for me to bother with most of it.

But I do not believe most of history is accidental...that it just happens by the roll of the dice. I believe much of it is planned and made to happen...and for specific reasons.

To keep people on this treadmill..they must be controlled and educated to this control system...disciplined in only one category of thought.
Some manage for certain reasons to escape these controls and think for themselves on many topic lines. They don't always let out that they can do this but they can.

I don't always agree with Zoltan or you ..but I will read and try to see what people are saying.
I just happen to know that much of what Zoltan posts about the RCC and it's history is true. Not just about the Nazis but going back into middle ages and before and the deals and agreements they were making with governments. Nothing has changed except that they have more religious competition today. Even from other governments/religions.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999 wrote:Greeny2,

Thanks for your response to my post.

I agree..you have the same problems with the Internet that you have with the media before the Internet was around.

Before the Internet you had mostly the media controlling and directing what the public was allowed to see..and know. In newspapers, on the radio, on televisions this was the case.

I began to learn this when I got my first shortwave set..how big was the paper curtain over a supposedly free people. I began to learn of things which would send me to the public library to check them out and on my own connect dots. And I found out many of the lines were there ..capable of being connected by dots.

The other thing that helped was when a friend of mine quit where I work and went to a big city newspaper to work the graveyard shift while finishing his schooling.
One of the things he would do in the middle of the night was take a look at the teletypes to see what was coming in from the various news agencies. Also talk to some of the free lance reporters coming in to sell their stories.
He was to go on to tell me how little news actually got into a newspaper because of the political slant of the top newspaper peoples.
Like the television and radio...they too would filter the news.

So too it is with public education and particularly with topics like I posted on the other thread about Just weights and measures and this relationship to Godly principles and practices ..compared to ungodly principles and practices.

No one sees what we do.

So too ..is my understanding of the workings of the RCC. However to be fair...they are not the only group like this. They too have competition in the "No one sees what we do category." There are others.

It is just that if you are willing to read the history ..the RCC has a much longer pedigree at this "No One Sees What We Do" template than do most governments.

The problem I see...is that if you think this through carefully...you can claim alot of things about the RCC..but ignorance is not one of them. For the Schools backed by the RCC have high education/academic standards. Notre Dame, Loyala University, Georgetown et al. I believe their education standards are significantly higher than many many public/government schools...always have been.
The people I have met who spent a significant amount of time going to Catholic Schools seem to have a higher grasp of the English Language than do many of us public school folks. Even of other languages as well.

Hence I am prone to say ..ignorance is not one of their problems in the RCC.

Oh...and I am not familiar with Zoltan2 by the name Tichen so you have me at an advantage there.

My point here is that the problem with the copy and paste going on in controlling views is nothing new. It is just now available to the public where as before home computers..it was in the hands mostly of those who could afford the technology and controls over information.
But if you wanted to take the time to dig for information's through the many and varied sources back then it could be found. With much more effort but it could be found.

And I found much of this information's beginning with the death of that Pope who only lasted about a month. As I recall his name was John Paul the 1st and succeeded Pope Paul VIth.

The book as I recall was titled ..."In God's Name" by David Yallop.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Name-Investi ... 0552132888

What this book did for me was to lead me down certain paths of history by chasing certain details which were not ordinarily found in most history books or in the media.
What it also did was awaken me to religious wars and conflicts going on between Occult groups..today...without the pubic being aware of them...by design.
The Propaganda 2 connections with world banking..P2 as it is sometimes called.

It was also a shock at the time to learn that there were brothels in Rome with several of the Popes to cater to the clergy exclusively.

Also in the book was the introduction to the history of how many other Popes gave up the ghost in suspicious circumstances.

Nonetheless there was a great deal of historical information's to be found there and elsewhere to which the public is seldom allowed to know...and for what I think are political/control reasons.

And I believe the RCC is not the only group under this umbrella..there are others.

This misuse and ignorance was going on long before the Internet as far as I am concerned and believe. The Internet only levels the playing field and puts the ability to the ordinary person to let views and thinking expand.
I also believe this free expansion of information's and views is a threat to someone out there who still wants this knowledge controlled.
Hence the talk and efforts to more closely monitor and control the Internet by insecure governments over their peoples.

It is up to us to think through what we believe on every topic. But access to information's is key in being able to even get enough to connect the dots. Without access ..you still have the controlled and rigged system of before the home computer.

I do not agree with all that is out here...and there is way to much for me to bother with most of it.

But I do not believe most of history is accidental...that it just happens by the roll of the dice. I believe much of it is planned and made to happen...and for specific reasons.

To keep people on this treadmill..they must be controlled and educated to this control system...disciplined in only one category of thought.
Some manage for certain reasons to escape these controls and think for themselves on many topic lines. They don't always let out that they can do this but they can.

I don't always agree with Zoltan or you ..but I will read and try to see what people are saying.
I just happen to know that much of what Zoltan posts about the RCC and it's history is true. Not just about the Nazis but going back into middle ages and before and the deals and agreements they were making with governments. Nothing has changed except that they have more religious competition today. Even from other governments/religions.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orangetom you should of been a diplomat.
Whatyou say it cannot be more clearer and said.
Its not my fault if Greeney 2 is displeased of what I say about the CC.
But what I bring out is well researched and either by me or others.
Also on a University level I did take courses as elective on Religions and religious studies.
And its not my fault if I was molested by priests as a school boy age 11-12-early 13.
When you are caught-ed with them fundeling your penis and i will not even bring up the rest no wonder like I once said I did try to commit suicide then and it was the only way out for me or else I would of been there till 17th and graduated my classical course.
Can you blame me for being so disgusted with the church dogmas and priests.
Do you know what it is for young children not only being rape by grown men but by men with the cloth and crucifix around their necks while getting away with it. While on Sunday morning they give you the so called cannibalistic so called body of christ.
With the invention of the dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year 1215

By which this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26).
Its pure invention.

at1with0 wrote:I thought the concept of original sin implied no human alive is innocent.

You are correct.

frrostedman wrote:

at1with0 wrote:I thought the concept of original sin implied no human alive is innocent.

You are correct.

We'll have to discuss what exactly constitutes a sin. In catechism at a Lutheran school, we learned the ten commandments. If I were back there and the teacher asked what sin is, I would say that it is when a person decides to perform an action that goes against the ten commandments. With regard to the "thought commandments" involving coveting, the action in that case takes place inside the mind of the person. So either way, any action (mental or physical) which contradicts the ten commandments is what a sin is.

Perhaps a different definition of sin could be anything that violates the golden rule. Whatever sin is, I think that the mental behaviors, i.e., modes of thought and feeling, are also subject to being sinful or not sinful.

Perhaps sin is exploiting free will to subvert and go against God's will, whatever that might be. In other words to try to change the plan, though the plan undoubtedly has contingency built into it.

Maybe you can explain this to me: why is the act of being born considered a sin?

Should people who have sex, even if they're married, take their child to the confessional to try to get their sin of being born absolved?