The Black Vault

orangetom1999 wrote:But the system does not care...as long as the system is served. The I's dotted and the T's crossed.

Yes, the system is corrupt as are all involved in it's conception. Case in point, my in-laws who are in their fifties now are and have been raising the children of my wife's cousin. Of the four children, there are three different fathers and one pays child support. My in-laws have custody of these children as they were taken away from the cousin because she is a drug addict and has exposed these children to child molesters, had sex for drugs in front of them and other horrible things. My in-laws do everything for these children, food, clothing, all school fees, everything a parent should do.

Wanna take a guess as to who gets food stamps and child support for these children? The mother of these children gets it, that's who. Yes, really. That is insane and you know what? She isn't the only family member milking the system this way. You see this cousin has a mother, my wife's aunt, who did this very same thing to her own children. The cousin in question whom the same in-laws raised and her adult brother whom is currently living with my in-laws right now was raised by his grandmother whom he calls "Mom". Until she stopped getting a check for him and kicked him out. As did most of my wife's other aunts and grandmother, the matriarch of this bunch. It is a pattern of popping out kids and getting a check all while someone else raises the children.

The welfare state, I mean system, enables this behavior and always goes after the man. All the while coddling and protecting the "victim", I mean woman. It really is insane, they look at the man's income as "disposable" and in order to survive they tell you to get a second job. Meanwhile, "Mom" over here is sleeping on some guys couch for three days because she's been on a crack/meth binge for 72 hours straight. When she wakes up, she's going to want a cheeseburger from McDonalds and if you don't accept her call and meet her somewhere to give her more money, she'll call her attorney and get the court to come after you or haul you in to raise your child support.

You know, because she already smoked up the child support check she got three days ago. Screw the school clothes and lunch money for the kids that you're raising or the car you need to maintain to go to work and transport your kids to and from. "Get a second job, ya bum". All that equality talk and this is the system we have that noone wants to talk about. If you take issue with said system, you are a sexist pig or a chauvinist. It's hypocrisy, they might as well scream "I'm just a girl" and be done with it. No, it's easier to scream "I deserve equal treatment" and then let the system work it's magic.

My disdain for these types of so-called women comes from the fact that my own mother raised us alone. Yes we got assistance like food stamps but my mother worked every day or night I should say. She didn't lay down and cry oh woe is me, she took care of what needed to be done. She wasn't perfect, she had her flaws and made mistakes along the way. I grew up in a household full of women, thankfully strong women that didn't believe in this corrupted system we have. They didn't wait for the system to dole out their pittance, they enabled themselves and took care of business.

This they instilled in me and I am better off for it. My granny, that's what we call em' down here y'all, recognized what was happening in the world around us and taught me to see it for what it was and to be prepared for it. She told me to avoid these so-called women. Did it work? Well, sort of, I am human and prone to mistakes. So the lessons finally took, hindsight and all that. Oh and this so-called woman in question, turns out she may be pregnant with child number five, not exactly sure of the father either....again. We'll see.

at1with0 wrote:TV is all right as long as you realize what is happening.

Yes..I would agree with this...except...that many today do not realize what is happening.

I told this again yesterday to a young fellow and to my surprise he agreed with me. He caught it right away. Not many get it ...at least the first time.

What I explained to him was the concept of the feminine male...who like many women..watches television and cannot distinguish between reality out here and what is on the tube.
That to get some people to express an idea or moral concept ..they must needs very often refer to some movie or television program they have seen. Their thinking is pre digested for them with a predictable result. Their emotions are someone else's emotions transplanted into them. They seem have no idea this has happened to them.

They have few original experiences or thoughts of their own. What they often have and don't know it ..are someone else's thoughts ..someone else's emotions. And many of these people are now voters. That to me is scary.

Another young man has come up to me and told me he now notices quickly when someone constantly uses a reference to a movie or television program they have watched in lieu of individual thinking and knowledge/experience.

I remember fussing with a woman who had the attitude that men should be made fit for them in a role in a romantic comedy.

I hit the ceiling on her. I asked her did she get that drivel from Cosmo Magazine..a romance novel...television..Sex and the City or whatever it is called??
And then of course I asked her if she went to public school.

I then explained to her that there are alot of men out here who work in what are called the death Occupations and that I know for the most part women shy away from these jobs.

So a man works all day or whatever is his shift, puts his life and safety on the line for his woman and children, and the best thought or expectation she has of him and for him is to fit him into a romantic comedy?? Only the settings on her radio dial count for anything.?? Talk about stupid. This woman had never heard any such thing from a male and never expected to be questioned on it. I told her she needs to go back to public school. The best system and thinking she has for a male is a romantic comedy for her needs. Wow!!

What is astonishing to me is that most males let this kind of stupid play though without questioning it.

But..I was gratified that at least two males I know ..recognized of what I was speaking.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Rukuyss,

I have to make haste but want to reply to your post when the time window is more opportune. I must shove off now. Catch you later.

Thanks,
Orangetom

have yer piece and cake in eat her too.

that totally cracked me up

also..on a more serious note..about the energy change

If you have not read 'The Field' (by Lynne McTaggart), folks..I higley recomend

I read it a few years back and am now rereading, as it's ideas have become more significant to me..with the rise in energies.

and Tom,
I do see where you are comign from with a more female view being pushe don boys and men..which is confusing many of them..thjey don;t know their role anymore

Truly, I believe our roles as men, and women, are in a huge state of flux right nw..more so than the usual..the water is still veyr muddy and hasn't sttle enough , yet..we must all ride it out

There are deadbeat men, there are deabeat women..there are deadbeat people.

But there are also good men,good women, good people..basically good people..who are just trying to work out their lives and live in the most honroable way they can with who they are and how they were raised, and with all the varying messgaaes abotu what life shoudl be constnatly bombarding them, these days.

and also..every day is a new day..and anyone, can just take a deep breath 9even if they were deadbeat) and say, something akin to, "from now on..I will do better..to honor myself, and everyone, and everyhting else" (and then just go and try to do that)

it's very AA, no

one could gather chips..99 days of 'doing better' and such

orangetom1999 wrote:This is one of the problems with your candidate..he does not appeal to the flesh of most ..per se. Only to those who have given up much of the flesh. He is not selling dreams where it can be done on the government dole..without RISK and with someone else paying for it. With a system in place to take the RISK out of life for us...as the feminine desire.
He is saying ..get the government out of almost all of it...and the people take care of it themselves. A very very dangerous position to take today.
Dangerous to government and whoever is the government ...privily, secretly.

I recognize this as well and see this as the reason he has been deemed unelectable by the GOP and MSM. Everything this candidate stands for goes against the system.

orangetom1999 wrote:Chosen people do not decide...they do not choose..they are chosen. They are plucked out of the dregs that this world really is. We do not have a choice in it. When it happens ..God will call us and put His work into our hearts/souls. We will not be able to stop it. And furthermore ...God will lead us onto paths in which certain peoples and events will occur or be put in front of us to our benefit and education...but for His purposes. This is not up to us.

I agree and have witnessed these individuals in action. People clearly chosen and acting in accord with the Word. What I have witnessed time and again though, as has my son recently, are those individuals who claim to be acting according to the Word yet show their true nature while out and about and even in the house of worship. You detailed these signs and flags and have clearly seen them yourself.

orangetom1999 wrote:I will tell you something about most women and also the feminne...they can spot confidence in another person from miles away in the dark...like radar.
They may be afraid of their own shadow...but they very quickly know who is not. Even faster than most men. I am not kidding you here. If nothing else ..their fears teach them this skill.

No doubt here, I have witnessed it many times myself.

orangetom1999 wrote:No one asks what you had to do to get it there...they just want and expect it to be there. Like on television and in the movies.

This is often how a man works and takes first place RISKs to keep an maintain a home in which he often comes in last..sometimes behind the dog and pets.
Do you know some of these men??

I am that man.

orangetom1999 wrote:However ..when you begin to see it for what it is...you will find the world outside your door severely lacking.
The problem comes when you realize that someone is letting the world creep into your home by default and taking over...running things and supplanting your thinking and values with the values of the world outside your door and expecting you to keep up and even take the RISKS to make it so..while they sit back and watch/expect. This will come to a crossroads at some time...some point.

Indeed, the world outside my door has been invading my home for some time now. What was once a family dinner at the table has been replaced by television, no real communication takes place anymore. The crossroad is divorce or disharmony that leads to it or a complete submission to the world outside by the father. A defeat in my opinion.

orangetom1999 wrote:To a man who knows...Peace is the most valuable commodity he can get in this world. Peace...not Piece...understand now??

If he takes up with a woman or a woman and children..Peace is still the most valuable commodity he can get from even her....not Piece.

How many men do you know who understand this concept?? If so few men understand this ...how many women do you know who understand this as well...in lieu of the fast food lane type thinking?? How many children...or do the children think the home is for them exclusively and they are running the show through Mom??

Aha! This is the meat and potatoes of their agenda. This is my household and the household of many of my friends and relatives.

orangetom1999 wrote:Peace means his home is a place where he is protected from the outside world..safe to come home to for REST..and quiet. Not the outside world intruding on him constantly.

How many women do you know who understand the concept of Peace ...verses Piece??

Is this too ..hidden and occult from most of the people out here?? Do you not think that politics is capable of taking advantage of this ignorance in most of the people out here?? What do you think they are teaching in public schools..Peace or Piece??? Understand now??

Do you not think that without this knowledge and foundation most of the young people out here are going to be lost and going around in circles until they begin to think for themselves?? Or acquire the tools/knowledge/wisdom to think for themselves??

Does this sound crazy??

It is not crazy because this is the exact conditioning destroying the American family. Questioning this system of television and public education will have you labeled as crazy by those funding it and those who buy into it, family included. As my children near entering into the world, one at a time, I fear for what is to come. The entitlement and ideals ingrained in them by this system go entirely against their upbringing and I fear they will learn the lessons all too late, as designed.

There is no peace to be found in my own home, only piece. My wife and I were brought up in two different worlds. She was raised in an environment where the children ruled the house through the mother. My father-in-law was conditioned to work his fingers to the bone to provide for an unrelenting and unappreciative, selfish, uncaring family. No interest for where and how the luxuries afforded them and their lifestyles came from. This teaching has found it's way into my home through my wife and mother-in-law.

My teachings, my lessons from the school of hard knocks, of real life experiences that contrast to this teaching, has been rejected and discarded in favor of this other philosophy. My father-in-law has had a foot in the grave for decades now. His reward in life is to one day be crushed in his elderly years by the items my mother-in-law has filled his home to bursting with. Yes, someday my father-in-law, who has worked his entire life, will one day be buried and left for dead in his own home.

My mother-in-law's hoarding syndrome will effectively kill him. This is the family on television, the family unit that people revere and seek to replicate. I have battled this syndrome all of my marriage, put my foot down, waged war if you will and yet I am losing ground.

Another point of conflict in our home, is our bedroom. You see, my wife was raised in an open bedroom environment. Nothing went on in there, there was no sanctity or sanctuary there except for when the mother was angry and threw a tantrum. She'd storm off and slam the door to sulk there when the father refused to buy her expensive, unnecessary things in place of paying the bills and buying groceries. A behavior still at work to this day.

I was raised to stay out of the parents bedroom, there is nothing there that belonged to me. This was a sacred place, a sanctuary in the home provided to me. Yet, I cannot go to my bedroom to seek sanctuary in my own home. It is filled with clothes and items that belong to my children, all well into their teens. I find myself often locked out by my own daughters who are enjoying my garden tub and relaxing in my sanctuary. The sanctuary of the female, my own bedroom.

Teaching my daughters, my son, to be self dependent, to take charge and do for themselves is rejected out of hand. It is far easier to get mom to do it or at least get mom so riled up about it that she bitches enough that dad gets up and does it out of frustration. This is what is wrong with America, the sanctity of the family has been destroyed. Our children have been programmed to be dependent on others, no longer any willpower to do for themselves. Sit at the television and eat, eat when you're sad, eat when you're mad, eat when you're happy, do not cook, buy your food.

orangetom1999 wrote:Your job as a man and father is to steady him out and teach him..prepare him as if you were a rudder for the day when he will indeed have to walk alone..as I am certain you have had to do yourself. To walk alone ...no safety net under him....and to survive. To teach him to navigate....to steer his own rudder. And not just him but your other children as well.
This is what a father of good conscience does for his flock....as a Sheperd.
And in due time..teach your son what is necessary to Sheperd his own flock.

As a Shepard, I have been trying to discern where I went wrong. Trying to steer my flock upon the correct path has been a daunting challenge.

at1with0 wrote:

Man I must've watched that movie a hundred times back in the day. Roddy Piper.

Bionic,

and Tom,
I do see where you are comign from with a more female view being pushe don boys and men..which is confusing many of them..thjey don;t know their role anymore

Truly, I believe our roles as men, and women, are in a huge state of flux right nw..more so than the usual..the water is still veyr muddy and hasn't sttle enough , yet..we must all ride it out.

Glad to know you see it Bionic. The males today are deliberately being feminized to the point where they cannot defend a male position. They are not fast enough..and also many men do not multi task well.

Thus meaning it is very easy for many females and the feminine to confuse them by out emoting and out talking/drama ..out guilting the males. Making the males feel guilty for not doing enough or doing more.

A male is fast enough to do a point spread but not out think a female in many situations. That to me is pitiful. And I don't think many males recognize this. Being Chivalrous or Noble is not a justification to me for stupid. The males often make themselves a doormat in this manner. You do not see females taking on traditional male roles as a career. They may do it for children..if they have no other options..but they do not want to do it for males. But it is fine with them if the males take on more female roles...in addition to doing the traditional male roles.
You gotta be a male to be so dumb you don't see this pattern..operating. For most of the females I have seen or known can catch it very very fast. They are by nature ..way smarter and faster than the males here. They may not talk about it...publicly ..or to most males...but they don't miss a beat. They are way sharper than most males here. I know this because they are way more competitive in this arena than are most males. They will hold their cards very closely concerning this.

The females who complain about doing traditional male roles...if you watch closely the males in their life...you will find the males often have a mother who spoiled them. They were breast fed for to long. Never weaned. Not much male presence around them or male/manly guidance. I don't approve of this in males as well. Especially when these males show up on your job expecting to be breast fed again. No thanks. You don't want one of these breast fed males watching your back in a dangerous evolution. I've had these spoiled a**wipes walk off the job to have a smoke and a coke and leave you in a dangerous position with no back up. The only thing these types take seriously is their own comfort levels. Hence they are feminine to me. I don't have much use or respect for this type of male.

Don't misunderstand me here Bionic. I am ..as a male ..all for coming to a woman's Breast. Hallelujah!!!! Figuratively as well as literally!!!
But I know that I cannot stay there forever. Nor would a good and worthy woman want me there ..forever.

There is indeed a time for a man to get up and off his backside and get going. As well as time for Rest and Peace.
And I have walked this world sufficient to know that a Woman who can bring a man Peace verses Piece is a rare and very valuable commodity in this world...verses the nonsense which so often tries to pass for womanhood and female today....in addition to the nonsense which tries to pass for male and man today.
What many women today think is normal ..is Piece for title to goods and services...and also for the Labors/Risks to get these goods and services to the buffet table. But there is little to no Peace here. They also think that by default they are running this show. And a male will often let them. Not a wise trade off for a male.

Being a good consumer and defining yourself male and female by the things we can get and the RISKS we can get others to take for us..is to me a definition of "Bondage" or put another way..."Whoredom."

And the body politic here in this country is in full approval of this bondage/whoredom/ignorance template...especially if it will buy them votes.

When the going gets rough and tough..I want people..., Male and Female both,.... around me who can get up of their Butts and can put aside their comfort levels sufficient to get things done ...safely for everyone. Then if time allows...we worry about comfort levels.

Well..I am getting long winded here Bionic. But I think you more than sufficient to grasp at what it is I am getting...or stumbling around here trying to say.

Thank you for your post,
Orangetom

Rykuss,

I recognize this as well and see this as the reason he has been deemed unelectable by the GOP and MSM. Everything this candidate stands for goes against the system.

They deemed him unelectable in previous elections while they continued on about bad fiscal policies resulting in the situation we have today...both Republicans and Democrats. Like I said previously in a post...to me the republicans are nothing more than Democrat lite. Many of them are not conservative at all.

I agree and have witnessed these individuals in action. People clearly chosen and acting in accord with the Word. What I have witnessed time and again though, as has my son recently, are those individuals who claim to be acting according to the Word yet show their true nature while out and about and even in the house of worship. You detailed these signs and flags and have clearly seen them yourself.

I have seen this too indeed...in people and organizations. It is also how I am often given to characterize the nature of the religion called "Politics." For Politics too is often not the product advertised.

I am that man.

Rykuss...I am sorry to hear that. I have been there myself...and eventually I caught on to it. I began to teach myself how to spot these indexes or fingerprints and take steps and thinking to not do it. When You have family responsibilities it becomes even more difficult ..particularly when someone else wants you to constantly keep the buffet line full..but has no consideration or care for the "RISKS" involved in the maintenance efforts/labors.

Indeed, the world outside my door has been invading my home for some time now. What was once a family dinner at the table has been replaced by television, no real communication takes place anymore. The crossroad is divorce or disharmony that leads to it or a complete submission to the world outside by the father. A defeat in my opinion.

Yes...television and movie thinking , beliefs, and emotions. Things happen for you because you push a button. Therefore you are good people if you push buttons ..on a remote or a phone. No labor or RISKS involved...because you watch this or that...purchase or wear this or that ..you are good people...anyone or anything else need not be considered or taken to account or factored in. Things should just show up because you are good people..and watch this or that good program or vote for other "good people."

You deserve it ..the others don't...even if they are working and RISKING for all of it.

One of the worst things I think that a family can do is get the children their own televisions ..where they can disconnect from the rest of the family. Same thing with a cell phone...they can disconnect from the rest of the family. It soon becomes not an emergency tool..but a social tool...away from the family. Often you cannot sit down to dinner without the outside world..ie..phone invading your home. The gist of this soon becomes how to gain access to the social structure..not how to be part of the family. It soon puts the cart in front of the horse....in every category.

Now ...the technology is running the home..not the people and certainly not the parents.

The key is reversing the technology grasp on the family. Divorce is coming anyway..under this system...and the numbers bear this out. It becomes like a drug habit..one has to get to their drugs...to get a fix..or go into rejection. Therefore sacrifice everything and anything to get to ones fix.

Most do not know they are on a drug.

The video link is appropriate. That to me ...Roddy Piper...movie was a early version or illustration of "The Matrix."

Aha! This is the meat and potatoes of their agenda. This is my household and the household of many of my friends and relatives.

Yeah..I know this symptom too. Also know these men. Many of these men are often happier at work than at home.
What is worse..the women/wives in these households do not particularly care...as long as the children are satisfied and kept going. They don't even seem to notice that the men are in this condition and wouldn't change anything if they could.
I am not saying here to put the children last ..but to bring the man in first too.
This becomes one high maintenance nightmare after another high maintenance nightmare...

What I find interesting in "Equality " happening..is that the male is expected and taken for granted that he will even "Provide" from the grave by insurance. Yet very seldom is anything provided or protected for the male if his spouse/mate dies first..unless he pays for that too.
Almost nothing a man gets from a woman is socially protected if she dies first.
There is almost total social silence on this inequality.

It is not crazy because this is the exact conditioning destroying the American family. Questioning this system of television and public education will have you labeled as crazy by those funding it and those who buy into it, family included.

This is how the very soul of a people and a nation are bought, sold, and traded for lucre.

As my children near entering into the world, one at a time, I fear for what is to come. The entitlement and ideals ingrained in them by this system go entirely against their upbringing and I fear they will learn the lessons all too late, as designed.

Your are correct to fear for what is to come for them as well as yourself.
They will learn the lessons whether they are ready for them or not. The world will not stop for them or you as they decide to get on or off the train.

How and when they learn the lessons is not going to be up to you. The question/questions for you is are you going to sink your ship while they decide they can learn the lesson or not. Are you going to pay for the ground on the race track over and over for them while they make up their mind to pit stop at someone else's expense. How much are you willing to make yourself "Expendable and Disposable while they continue to "Pit Stop " or grow up.
All you can do is give them the foundation and hope at some time they can connect the dots.

Years ago..I told a kid...I say kid..he was in his twenties and just out of the Marine Corps. He was having problems with his marriage and as a result finances. His auto was broken and I helped him repair it by letting him use my garage.

I remember telling him and have told a number of young men since then.

"Don't you understand what it is to be a man today?? Has no one ever told you?

As a man you are going to have to solve problems..navigate problems...to get them done for others who don't care how they get done...they don't want to know the details..they just want it done for them...without work and without RISKS.

When you are doing all this work and RISK...no one is coming to help you ...no one is coming to rescue you. No one is coming to Flash Dance you through these hurdles. They just want the finished product. You are and will be for all purposes...alone in these endeavours."

This young man...his eyes lit up..got big..he had never heard anything like this. It was obvious that he had little male help or guidance when he was growing up.
But he knew enough to immediately recognize it was true.
The Marine Corps had never prepared him for such thinking.

I have repeated this process with a number of young men to this day. Some catch it..and some do not. Those who do not ..you just leave them right where they are at. Just like I would with some women who don't catch on and try to replace my beliefs with theirs...with nothing of real intrinsic value coming to me....ie..peace verses piece.

There is no peace to be found in my own home, only piece. My wife and I were brought up in two different worlds. She was raised in an environment where the children ruled the house through the mother. My father-in-law was conditioned to work his fingers to the bone to provide for an unrelenting and unappreciative, selfish, uncaring family. No interest for where and how the luxuries afforded them and their lifestyles came from. This teaching has found it's way into my home through my wife and mother-in-law.

This is sad Rykuss. I know many men in the same position. Their women don't seem to care and think this is perfectly normal...unless something happens to their man and they have no more investment in biology..biology has run out and it has turned into "Past midnight Cinderella."
I do not approve of children running the house by running mother. And I know many households where this is the norm. The children often grow up High Maintenance with expectations that someone else fill in the hard gaps/hurdles for them gratis...even after they are grown. And furthermore many of them still cannot let go the tit after the age of being grown and having children of their own. Many of these grandparents are now days not only raising their children again...but grandchildren too. You now have children and grandchildren at home and the children wanting to be sixteen again and pit stopping and again Mom thinks this is normal. Nothing wrong with it...everything is beautiful. Make grandpa expendable, disposable, and last place again. No Peace.

My teachings, my lessons from the school of hard knocks, of real life experiences that contrast to this teaching, has been rejected and discarded in favor of this other philosophy.

No problem here. You just have to decide whether, when the kids go out into the world, you are going to continue to pay for the same ground for them two three or an infinite number of times while they are pit stopping. Or are they going to take responsibility for themselves. Your choice.


I'll tell you how this worked for one fellow in the olde crew in which I worked. His daughter got married and after about two years it did not work out ..for reasons I know not ..nor care. But she had a daughter in the mean time. So she comes back home to mom and pop since she had no where else to go.
But in the mean time ..Pop had turned the daughters room into His room with all his goodies in there they way he wanted it. It was his sanctuary...from his high maintenance kids and wife.

So the Light bulb comes on in Moms head...the "Expendability and Disposability light bulb. The Default setting light bulb. She says..."You need to give up your room to daughter and grand daughter.!!"

To my astonishment...Pop/Grand Dad says " I ain't giving up S**t!!" I didn't marry the guy ..I and I am not responsible for what happened. And I am not going through this again!! I don't need to grow up...she does!

He didn't give up his room. She and the grandchild slept on a air mattress for about four months and eventually went back to her husband. I don't know how the rest of it worked out but I found this interesting. And he was correct and his woman was wrong.

See what I mean...it is easy for women to work default settings at someone else's expense and RISK...if you let them. It is very easy for a woman to expect a man to cover the same ground for the children and then grandchildren over and over and over...and think this is normal But you have to handle this for yourself and decide if you want a career in covering the same ground over and over.
This may satisfy mom's mothering emotions..but she often does not worry about the emotions of others..their emotions are expendable and disposable.

This is not equality ..it is politics. And politics can often be a type of whoredom.
The buying, selling, and trading of someone else's soul...because no one sees what we do...and if they do ..they don't count anyways.

I cannot go to my bedroom to seek sanctuary in my own home.

It is up to you to decide how to construct your own sanctuary since your woman cares not for this in your regards. I illustrated for you how one man did it in his home.

I know some women who are so stupid they cannot think outside their own settings on their dials. Their men find more Peace working on an olde car they have purchased than with them or for them. They think there is something wrong with the man...they do not have the ability to look inside to see if there is something wrong with their working/thinking/value system. They do not realize that they have found a place in their " perfect" Home and garden house ...for everyone but their man. Hence her man finds more peace and relaxation with the olde car in the garage than with them...or at work...or anywhere else.

But this would take commitment from a woman to comprehend this. And their commitments are to the children and their Home and Garden house. Because no one sees what we do.

Teaching my daughters, my son, to be self dependent, to take charge and do for themselves is rejected out of hand. It is far easier to get mom to do it or at least get mom so riled up about it that she bitches enough that dad gets up and does it out of frustration.

You decide for yourself how much of this you want to be doing as a career too. If you don't ..you will be doing this for them as adults while they continue to "Pit Stop" with you being the pit crew and your woman directing you to work faster and faster ...not only for your children but grandchildren to come. And they will all think this is normal.

I have actually seen a grown kid...telling his father when he needs his car fixed and that he will pick it up when it is ready. This kid had cigarettes in his pocket...but no money to fix his own car. What is wrong with this picture??? What is wrong with the father??
I was dumbstruck when I first saw someone doing this.

I would find this no different for a daughter. If she can afford cigarettes she can afford to keep her car running. You play ...you pay.

Let me tell you something else which I witnessed many years ago and told this woman what was wrong with the picture. She invited me over several times to dinner. After the dinner was over she cleaned up while the children went into the living room and watched television and talked on the phone. One day when we were out and about...I told her ..do you know what you are doing to those children??...they were young teens back then. You are stunting their growth. There is no reason you should be cleaning up and doing everything after also preparing dinner..and the children watching TV and lounging around. I could maybe see it if they were doing homework or such..but it does not take that long to clean up a kitchen ..especially if they work as a team. You have put in a full days work and are tit feeding the kids long past the age they should be learning to do for themselves...as well as weaned. You are crippling them with your love. It is not making you a better mother. It is making you a worn out mother and dumbing down your children.
I did not say that she did not love her children I would not say this to a woman....but that you can love them while making them responsible and making them grow up as well. You can love your children and tell them no. It is still love....though it takes some of us hard heads ..years and years to figure it out. Me included!!!

Eventually she had them doing the laundry at the apartment laundromat...and other things they had never been doing.
We did not work out ..but I was glad she got the kids off their butts. But first she had to get her thinking cap on correctly. She had lost focus in the concept of preparing them for self sufficiency and adulthood..doing for themselves.
She thought being a good mother was doing everything and anything for them or getting someone else to do it for them. Not so. You prepare them for life by teaching them bit by bit to do for themselves..to take careful measured RISKS. Not tit feeding them and thinking this is excellence and entitlement.

I remember asking her...why are you making these kids beds...they are olde enough to do it themselves and clean their own rooms. Stop breast feeding these kids and start weaning them.

Even momma cat will swat their kittens away from the tit when they get of a sufficient age....wean them.

Well..I think you get the point here. I am indeed long winded on many things.

As a Shepard, I have been trying to discern where I went wrong. Trying to steer my flock upon the correct path has been a daunting challenge

It is indeed a daunting challenge. Life itself is a daunting challenge.

You decide which is more important to you..Peace or Piece.

If you let a woman lead you ...you get the results you are describing.

I am not saying don't listen to your woman...for women often see things from a different perspective and sometimes a more practical direct perspective than do many men. But weight this out against the RISKS you must take to achieve these goals..often alone.

You are to lead your flock...not be lead. Otherwise you get the cart before the horse..continually...no sanctuary..no peace.

Hope this helps a bit,
Think things through,
Don't let others out emote you so that they never have to face the RISK and be responsible.

Orangetom