The Black Vault

OraProNobis wrote:this does not imply that God does not require or desire our prayers , especially on the behalf of others.

There we go again with a God who has desires...

frrostedman wrote:Just for the sake curiosity.

How does one square up the following:

• God never interferes with our affairs because that would break His agreement not to affect our free will
• We should pray for God to intercede on our behalf and on the behalf of others

I should not have used the word never, but it is my understanding that God does not interfere with a humans free will, but will answer to prayers and requests made by sincere believers, as well as the requests of souls in heaven , or purgatory.

I think we differ extensively on this belief, so it best to just drop it frrostedman, and let God show us the truth.

I would never assume to say that I know it all, but these are my beliefs from the Holy writings I have read, and not just from the bible which I gave you many examples of God requesting prayer in scripture.

I say, let us be grateful we both believe in the saving and sanctifying grace of Jesus, and let our hearts and minds truly be open to the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

In due time, the truth will be revealed clearly .

So drop it when it suits you to do so.. I see how it is.

dear friends , think of free will as an pilot in control of an large aero plane

flying into an star filled night sky. the pilot merely sets the course ,

makes minor adjustments , and calculates the logistics of point a - and point b.

the idea , the intent, the planning are all initiated by this pilot. got it ?

many things can impact his journey, storms that may effect a smooth flight.

nasty passengers could disrupt his plans... free will might be 'spiritual impetus'

conscious action , coupled with divine 'awareness ' ( at birth )

now , think of divine intervention as god consciousness intercedant ,

apon events and intent placed into motion.

my implication is that at an certain point of our journey- tasks- become

not an ' constant' even w/ awareness man cannot control events and outcomes

once initiated ... therefore , as complex ( simple) the universe is this pilot

will need an co- pilot . whether they ( pray) or ask for one. the universe

in all it's wonders, creation , need maintenance too. ( angels?)

mans attention span requires this. " god is my co- pilot " go figure !

ricardo wrote:dear friends , think of free will as an pilot in control of an large aero plane

flying into an star filled night sky. the pilot merely sets the course ,

makes minor adjustments , and calculates the logistics of point a - and point b.

the idea , the intent, the planning are all initiated by this pilot. got it ?

many things can impact his journey, storms that may effect a smooth flight.

nasty passengers could disrupt his plans... free will might be 'spiritual impetus'

conscious action , coupled with divine 'awareness ' ( at birth )

now , think of divine intervention as god consciousness intercedant ,

apon events and intent placed into motion.

Where we may differ, and certainly where most here differ from me is, I believe God is the one who sets our destination. Apart from arriving at the destination, what goes on during the flight is the result of what free will remains... that is... the free will do what we choose along the journey... pillow fights, drunken stupors, sleeping... whatever.

lol that was funny and brite. actually not so far apart. predestination

co-exists w/ free will, w/ in the god consciousness. why one or the other ?

example - a buddhist ( full) moon/lite bicycle ride tonight. I will be an test

subject . my idea or gods- what will occur ? I'm setting events into motion,

or as you suggest / imply , we don't know of gods plan/ destination/ intent,

that which might conflict w/ free will. a drunk driver comes out of nowhere

boom ...splat... Ricardo is road kill... did I plan this or was its gods will ?

(final destination)

Indeed ricardo. I was very refreshed that our paradigms are so similar!

Though I will admit.. my metaphor of pillow fights got me thinking about that inevitability we all know of. Maybe there is less to this free will thing than we think; since everyone knows, if you put some girls in the same room with a bunch of down pillows--it will always end up with the girls in the bras and panties, and feathers filling the air. That seems to fly in the face of free will but perhaps it is just fore-ordained. Inevitable.



Praise God for the simple, good things life has to offer.

The phrase free will, to me, means that we get to choose whether or not we will ever reach a particular destination.