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Monergism vs Synergism

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Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:15 am

8:15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the
Holy Spirit,

10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on
all who heard the message.

47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have
received the Holy Spirit just as we have."


Same as when Christ breaths upon them and they receive the holy spirit, I have
asked the question - was there a choice in the matter that they should receive it
or not?........grace is a part of that. A part of ourselves in what others choose.
Who was Chirst that his spirit should not be mirrored back, that the spirit of God
should not overcome and replace....with no conflict?

How much does grace move people...

There will be more grace soon here on earth than ever before.
A gratitude and a storm of it is building, by God through Christ
and his body - the chosen are rising.

And yes, a one spirit creation.

How sovereign are we from Gods grace is a better question.

Irresistible grace is a wild fire. A charisma out of control of
self, incapable of not serving the divine self of others
in accordance with the will of God. Unstoppable by the will of self.
All thanks be to God.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:27 pm

frrostedman wrote:I've approached this subject many times. All but about 2 of us Christians here believe salvation is a Synergistic work. I and 1 other if I'm not mistaken, believe salvation is a Monergistic work.


This is not truthful.
There is not a conflict of monergism vs synergism.
In Gods Grace what does not cooperate?
The self will does not cooperate, but the will of God
inside of us cooperates. The differences seen are that
of the will of God cooperating with the will of God
VS the will of self cooperating with the will of God
for salvation. The will of self is not saved.

God and individuals cooperating for salvation VS

Spiritual regeration without the cooperation of SELF

In synergism it is not the self will.

Irresistible grace cooperates with the will of God
for all.

Within the theological arguement of synergism VS monergism
there is only a misunderstanding of Gods will to accept one
VS the other.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Location: Minnesota US

Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:42 pm

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

------------

Christ always wants to come alive inside of us and to live in all others more fruitfully,
It is not the cooperation of our own will that Gods grace minds itself with.
It is the cooperation of the life of Christ that is inside of us and inevitable
to grow and be nourished by an even greater abundance of this living spirit.

This above passage from scripture I would like someday to find some people
that understand it for what it is.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:01 pm

More words that could be used to desribe Gods Grace is
an elucidating energy that expatiates. Or in other words,
pure clarity that wanders freely.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:00 pm

What do we provide to the internal lives of others and in return
enriching the external realities of Life through Christ - if you think
for one second that you are chosen and yet you cannot
come up with a few ideas of what you have been giving to
others lives around you - I would question what you know
about grace and the workings of Gods will. Christ is not
some foreign entity that comes upon you for only you
and yet to remain sovereign in him, unless sovereign is
being defined as sovereignty in Love that is a part
of others as well. Sovereignty is not being defined
from the right perspectives when the Spirit of God is
in us all, and Love.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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sandra
 
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Location: Minnesota US

Postby frrostedman » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm

sandra wrote:You two have little clue what the hell grace is to begin with.
Hardly a clue.

That was a little harsh. :(

frrostedman wrote:
sandra wrote:I've approached this subject many times. All but about 2 of us Christians here believe salvation is a Synergistic work. I and 1 other if I'm not mistaken, believe salvation is a Monergistic work.


This is not truthful.

It sounds like you're saying I lied?

sandra wrote:There is not a conflict of monergism vs synergism.

The Monergism vs Synergism discussion involves grace, election, predestination, and free will. These subjects of debate are the most hotly contested in all the Christian Church today. So I have to disagree with you on that one.
"But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about Jesus being a great teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." C.S. Lewis
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Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:06 pm

Then let it help you rethink the worth of your
experiences, because they deserve more credibility.
What kind of worth does gods grace have....what kind
of room do we give it to live in our lives and in others
while we are a part of it. Take a leap here Tom and
not be offended, but rather look again at what I have
shared in this thread. I know the worth of what I have
shared and how far it will go. That is something for
me to be thankful for and not to feel sorry for.
There is nothing to feel bad about. Not for you,
not for me, not for anyone. It all is what it is.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
sandra
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:27 pm
Location: Minnesota US

Postby sandra » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:13 pm

Within the theological arguement of synergism VS monergism
there is only a misunderstanding of Gods will to accept one
VS the other.


I stand by those words, the conflict is in confusion of Gods will,
to accept one vs the other. Explain why that is not true?
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
sandra
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:27 pm
Location: Minnesota US

Postby at1with0 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:38 pm

I agree on the harshness.

sandra you often speak as though you know people better than they know themselves.



Try to not flip out on me here. 8-)


This is a very interesting topic but I'm kind of on the sidelines because it all is based on the premise that the Bible was inerrantly transcribed by the prophets and what not of the old times. This is something I don't believe in as you all know. In fact, it's how I see that the God of the OT and NT could easily be the same God in that the anthropomorphism of God (and other things which I won't mention) of the OT is a mistake. "Vengeance is mine" comes to mind as an example of a mistaken translation of what was received into human terms. I do believe God is peace, love, bliss, and nothing else such as a punisher. Vengeance is not an act of love, though one could try to rationalize it by calling it tough love which I think has too much of a human spin on it.

I would like to think that our behavioral patterns greatly influence the extent to which we are blessed with grace from God. Thoughts as well as acts are behavioral patterns. What's written on our souls, the very essence of who we are, is known by God and influences the level of grace, imo.

I also have a dim view on those who say that anything outside the Biblical box is poison. I can understand why someone would think that about things that directly contradict the Bible as being poison (potentially) but things that are not inconsistent with the Bible are not necessarily poison. Again, my opinion.

IN fact, I think some aspects of the OT are poison. But that's what you'd expect from a pagan/infidel.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby frrostedman » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:42 pm

sandra wrote:Within the theological arguement of synergism VS monergism
there is only a misunderstanding of Gods will to accept one
VS the other.

I disagree. You said many things very supportive of Monergism and you just did again. I am pleasantly surprised by your comments and I welcome them. And I did read them!


I stand by those words, the conflict is in confusion of Gods will,
to accept one vs the other. Explain why that is not true?

No, I can't explain why that is not true because I believe it is true.

I think it's semantics biting us in the rear again. The conflict I am referencing is the conflict between people and their beliefs. We can't all be right, that's relativism. When 2 parties say opposing and mutually exclusive things, only 1 party can be right, or both wrong; but not both right.

Right? :D
"But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about Jesus being a great teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." C.S. Lewis
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