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Major Threat to Religion? Clergy People Turning Atheist

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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:21 pm

humphreys wrote:
greeney2 wrote:Humphreys, nobody is more argumentative, and oppositional to anything said than you. As I said, what ever Frosty said is was going to be ridiculed, which you did. His point when right over your head, as well as your own reply. Hopefully your reply about your wife and child will go right over their head too with your hypothetical. :oops: Unconditional Love except for--------- :? One would have to question, how a person with no beliefs, and demands total proof of everything, can have faith, trust, or Love at all. I think you know what my answer is.


Nothing I replied to frrosted was in the least bit ridiculing. I tactfully disagreed and gave examples as to why I disagreed. Frrosted has my respect in a way you do not, so stay out of it and stop stirring up crap.

I have no idea what the story in 2Kings is about,


No sh*t greeney, add that to the massive list of stuff you don't have the foggiest idea about yet can't help giving everyone your uninformed opinion anyway :lol:

greeney2 wrote:The lack of shame, and level of disrespect, no boundries, no clue to doing something offensive. I really wonder why you are so intent with arguing with a few old men, who have made it to points in their lives, where wisdom has more meaning than your 28 year old logic? Or is is 29 by now.


Greeney you have never shown the slightest respect for anyone on this forum. As far as I am concerned, you are the number one offender preventing any sort of peace here. You are a piss poor moderator whose every post is an attempt to start trouble because you're too thick to debate any other way.

And if you want to see ridicule, start reading orangetom's posts. He tries to ridicule constantly, while you hammer out insults. The two of you are a disgrace.

See my post below for an example of what I have to constantly deal with with the two of you - complete lack of reading comprehension, for a start.



I can always tell when I strike a nerve because the comeback is a moderator comment, spelling, or some other juvenile rant. You tell um, Mr. 29 year old critical thinker! Why would I have any respect for you or Event Horizon? Neither of you know the meaning of the word. One of these days you are going to hear something that may wake you up to your oblivous nature.
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Postby humphreys » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:30 pm

Greeney, you mention that it is the atheists taking Bible stories literally in order to make Christianity look ridiculous. You won't realize it, but you'll find you are attacking the majority of other Christians here who seem to take the Bible significantly more seriously than you, by implying that the story is worthy of ridicule if we assume it is true.

How do you tell real stories from symbolic ones?

Why don't you ask the likes of orangetom, frrosted, and qmark whether they think the bears story really happened. You might be surprised to find that myself and event are arguing against the story taken literally, because that is the view of most of the Christians here, and I'd wager, elsewhere too.

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but I doubt you'll find frrosted and others agreeing with your watered down version of Christianity, and remember, it's a slippery slope.

Hey, maybe the whole heaven/hell/jesus sacrifice thing was merely symbolic too?
Last edited by humphreys on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

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Postby humphreys » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:35 pm

greeney2 wrote:
humphreys wrote:
greeney2 wrote:Humphreys, nobody is more argumentative, and oppositional to anything said than you. As I said, what ever Frosty said is was going to be ridiculed, which you did. His point when right over your head, as well as your own reply. Hopefully your reply about your wife and child will go right over their head too with your hypothetical. :oops: Unconditional Love except for--------- :? One would have to question, how a person with no beliefs, and demands total proof of everything, can have faith, trust, or Love at all. I think you know what my answer is.


Nothing I replied to frrosted was in the least bit ridiculing. I tactfully disagreed and gave examples as to why I disagreed. Frrosted has my respect in a way you do not, so stay out of it and stop stirring up crap.

I have no idea what the story in 2Kings is about,


No sh*t greeney, add that to the massive list of stuff you don't have the foggiest idea about yet can't help giving everyone your uninformed opinion anyway :lol:

greeney2 wrote:The lack of shame, and level of disrespect, no boundries, no clue to doing something offensive. I really wonder why you are so intent with arguing with a few old men, who have made it to points in their lives, where wisdom has more meaning than your 28 year old logic? Or is is 29 by now.


Greeney you have never shown the slightest respect for anyone on this forum. As far as I am concerned, you are the number one offender preventing any sort of peace here. You are a piss poor moderator whose every post is an attempt to start trouble because you're too thick to debate any other way.

And if you want to see ridicule, start reading orangetom's posts. He tries to ridicule constantly, while you hammer out insults. The two of you are a disgrace.

See my post below for an example of what I have to constantly deal with with the two of you - complete lack of reading comprehension, for a start.



I can always tell when I strike a nerve because the comeback is a moderator comment, spelling, or some other juvenile rant. You tell um, Mr. 29 year old critical thinker! Why would I have any respect for you or Event Horizon? Neither of you know the meaning of the word. One of these days you are going to hear something that may wake you up to your oblivous nature.


It's "oblivious".
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:44 pm

You would know!
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Postby humphreys » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:47 pm

Because I went to school? :eh:
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:41 pm

Graduated with honors! Summa cum laudemouth! :P
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Postby event_horizon » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:44 pm

frrostedman wrote:I'll try to make you all understand a little bit about the Christian mindset. This is not intended to be a cure-all for all your questions and concerns, and probably will fall flat here, but I'm going to try. This is not a very good forum for debate unless someone has an open mind and is able to take in the opposing arguments and look at them objectively. There is no way--with everyone having a keyboard, an attitude, and instant google access to arguments supporting their opinion--to convince anyone of anything if they are here just to argue. If you are here to learn and understand a little better, then maybe this will make some sense to you and it is you I have in mind. The scoffers and mockers who will argue with everything no matter what are never my intended audience.

Please think of someone you love. And I mean love dearly and ceaselessly. Humphreys, this is easy for you. Think of your lovely wife, or your son. Others, I don't know who they hold dear.

Ok picture that person. Now imagine that this person comes running through your front door and jumps into your arms. He/she explains that they just killed someone. Shocking, yes, but just imagine. And he/she tells you that no matter what anyone tells you, there was good reason for it.

Ok, you get no further information. Don't ask anymore questions, no if's, and's, or but's. Now I'm betting that in this case, given this information, you would not only defend your loved one, you would fight to the death for her/him. You trust that person and if he/she says there was reason for it, that's good enough. Forget how all the evidence plays out. You would trust that person, right? And if you say you would trust them only if the evidence played out in their favor, then I'm sorry, I would question your love and devotion to that person.

So anyway........... to us Christians........ God is real. God is as real as the computer and monitor in front of you; as real as the car you drive; as real as your loved one; as real as the air we breathe. And so, when the bible gives us a story where human beings were hurt, punished, mauled by bears, or even killed; we believe in our hearts that there was good reason for it. To us, God is just in HIs every action; God defines justice. So if kids were mauled by bears, then--because we know about the character of our beloved God--we trust there was good reason for it. The bible doesn't go on to explain that the kids were 5 years old, completely innocent, and undeserving of such treatment. Therefore it is up to the reader to decide after reading the story. Do we trust that our beloved God had good reason to allow such a thing to happen? Or. do we automatically assume God was wrong, the children were innocent, and God is evil?

Just as you would--at least initially--trust your loved one when they say they had reason to do what they did--we Christians likewise trust our loved One--our LORD--that there is good reason for all the things He allowed and allows to happen.


How can you be so in love with something you never even met? :eh: How is that equivalent to someone you actually know in the flesh? It isn't, because with one you can have conversations with and see them...the other is just an idea or a thought.

Also, if you believe in the flood, then you also have to believe that a heck of a lotta infants died in it. How is it justifiable to kill all those innocent babies?

And I'm sorry, but if someone I loved told me that he/she killed someone and he/she thought they were right to do so, then why the heck would they not tell me the circumstances if it were justified? When it isn't justified is when people don't want to talk about it.
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby event_horizon » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:53 pm

humphreys wrote:
greeney2 wrote:I have no idea what the story in 2Kings is about,


No sh*t greeney, add that to the massive list of stuff you don't have the foggiest idea about yet can't help giving your uninformed opinion on anyway :lol:


:clap:

That sums it all up.
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:00 pm

You have not read the book of 2 Kings from beginning to end, studied a word of it, but you are an expert about one sentence? :roll:
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Postby event_horizon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:48 am

I did read it, you ignorant fool. And there's nothing in there to suggest that the 42 boys that were attacked by bears is supposed to be a "symbolic" story.

And the actual sequence with the bears is 6 sentences long, not "one." So you don't even know what 2:23-24 says, much less the whole thing. :lol: :oops:
I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what logic and reason cause me to believe. All I want is to live with the truth -- nothing more, nothing less.
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