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Postby sandra » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:34 am

Image
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Postby adamwarlock2099 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 am

I would say it's about how a person expresses how they love someone. Many times when my wife gets down (she's bi-polar) I realize how much some people need to hear "I love you" no matter how well I show through my actions that I do love her. To her at sometimes all that sh*t doesn't matter unless she hears me say "I love you". And sometimes it is quite frustrating because it does feel as if she doesn't notice all things that I do for her and the kids, she that someone is showing her attention. But I realize that even though she constantly tells me she loves me, I know that through her actions and not just because she says it, that it's all different for different people.
"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski
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Postby at1with0 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:30 pm

Makes me think of all kinds of people... My mom, God, and others.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby sandra » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:16 pm

adamwarlock2099 wrote:I would say it's about how a person expresses how they love someone. Many times when my wife gets down (she's bi-polar) I realize how much some people need to hear "I love you" no matter how well I show through my actions that I do love her. To her at sometimes all that sh*t doesn't matter unless she hears me say "I love you". And sometimes it is quite frustrating because it does feel as if she doesn't notice all things that I do for her and the kids, she that someone is showing her attention. But I realize that even though she constantly tells me she loves me, I know that through her actions and not just because she says it, that it's all different for different people.



I agree, its definitely about how a person expresses love, same as how a person
can and knows how to express love. Well it seems like your wife and you
have some good balance though, its clear you do well to understand her, thats
cool. But its not always easy it, I've burned alot of bridges in my past.
Not everyone is very capable of showing,sharing,expressing love period.
This was an intriguing statement to me, because at times it is more
simple than thought, not all of us have had alot of love in our life
but who doesn't do with what they have.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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Location: Minnesota US

Postby sandra » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:39 pm

at1with0 wrote:Makes me think of all kinds of people... My mom, God, and others.


Absolutely, same here.
Makes me think about all my relations, my times of not having patience,
of being hurt, let down, disappointed, but also times of giving and receiving,
of expecting more out of myself, taking care of my own life and spirit
so that I can be useful and there for people should they need me, but not
necessarily how they want me to be there.
We all get worn out at times, makes me think about the real unfortunate
people in this world. Maybe ones that also don't always make good
decisions, maybe sometimes even very bad ones, and the possible reasons.
On a day to day basis we all read the news, hear of sad and ugly stories,
and think to ourselves "these people are monsters, hateful sick monsters"
and yet if the world was not socially economically on and on organized the
way it was, how many of these things would manifest. How much is the structure
of society alone also responsible. We are clueless at times. We many times
are just as much the criminals. And we lock soo many people away for life
so that we can continue undisturbed in a path that only reaps more of
the same. It makes me think about fortunate people that
would keep everything to themselves knowing they could help
diminish suffering for others. And the idea that contrary to the
appearances of knowledge, it is still all the love that each of us have...
that even when it appears that people know better, many times
they actually do not. That in truth of love, we all do with what we have or
what we need but don't have.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
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sandra
 
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:27 pm
Location: Minnesota US

Postby at1with0 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:18 am

Taking to mind my mother, it was easy as a child to think of her as somewhat monstrous, hateful and sick as you said. She passed away in 2003 and I consider myself about as fortunate as can be that I let go of all that hatred and embracing her with all of her flaws. The sentiments of this quote had occurred to me in the late 90's, that I began to believe she was doing the best she could, really. And how much culpability laid upon my shoulders for being old enough to tell her how I needed to be loved...and neglecting to?

Pretty much the exact same thing applies if I were to picture God instead. It's easy to view God as a hateful monster. Just look at all the suffering in the world. But it never really occurred to me before, in light of your quote, that maybe God is loving the world with all it has. Free will has to be near the top of the suspects list in terms of why the world is the way it is. It would be 'easy' to imagine a world of nothing but pure bliss if it weren't for free will and the abuse of free will so that we make choices that knowingly result in suffering to ourselves or others. But with free will in the equation.. Well it seems that freedom over bliss was the choice God as well as we make continually. Some of us, anyway. Freedom to make mistakes and freedom to cause suffering for ourselves and others.

Yet nothing can escape omnipotence. We should be able to have freedom and bliss. It should be possible. Yet so few have realized a free and happy equilibrium when surrounded by a bunch of manure.

They say that you need evil and suffering in order to know what good and bliss are. I suppose this goes back to the fruit in the garden. Were it possible to regurgitate the fruit and unlearn the difference between good/evil and bliss/suffering so as to eliminate the entirety of human suffering, would that be wise? Was it the disobedience that resulted in suffering or was it the fruit that when digested caused the suffering. I disagree that you need to have evil in order to know what good is. And I think God is smart enough to manage to enable bliss without making us mindless automatons.

Perhaps that is precisely how it already is. We are enabled to have bliss yet are not mindless automatons. Yet, sadly, we are enabled to be destroyers of bliss and we as a race can be rather 'mindless.'
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby adamwarlock2099 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:22 am

sandra wrote:I agree, its definitely about how a person expresses love, same as how a person
can and knows how to express love. Well it seems like your wife and you
have some good balance though, its clear you do well to understand her, thats
cool. But its not always easy it, I've burned alot of bridges in my past.
Not everyone is very capable of showing,sharing,expressing love period.
This was an intriguing statement to me, because at times it is more
simple than thought, not all of us have had alot of love in our life
but who doesn't do with what they have.


I think it's because I had both extreme sides of the spectrum with my mother and father. My mother was very verbal and expressive as she was with other people too. My father, who I guess I learned from, wasn't verbally or emotionally expressive. But we had a roof over our heads and food in our bellies. I had the toys, the gifts and the games, but never in excess, but within reason. So all my childhood I watched my father work for his family, and I see that as a kind of love that is very important. It allowed my mother to not have to work and be at home with us, and later be at home when got home from school. That made her available to be there for school events and the such.

There is no doubt that I learned to show my love through actions, more than words. But I have always felt that way about anything in general. I now find it hard to express my love to my sons emotionally or verbally. If my son says "I love you", I say "I love you too son", but I don't initiate it. I play games with them, buy them stuff and spend time with them. This is not to say my wife doesn't, she's just also verbally expressive where I am not.

It's quite strange the things that you learn from your parents that you change about how you are with your children and the things that you do just like they did.
"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski
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Postby bionic » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:51 pm

hey Sandra,
I love that!!!
8-)
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby bionic » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:55 pm

Buddhists believe it is our attachment that causes our suffering..our internal need for validation (driven by ego)..to be able to be at peace in life you have to free yourself of that need and just accept life as it is, and others as they are, and you as you are.

Go with the flow

Way easier in theory than in practice,
non-attachment

Jesus said, "see the lillies"
same thing
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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bionic
 
Posts: 9889
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Postby sandra » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:29 am

I've just been listening, or reading, alot lately.
Been just intrigued and happy with the wealth
of information and thoughts shared.
You guys added alot of personal things
in this thread, I appreciate the openness,
as thats truly what its all about in life,
for all of us. blackvault, on the web, it doesn't
get any better than it does right here.
“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
User avatar
sandra
 
Posts: 3704
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:27 pm
Location: Minnesota US

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