shadowcass wrote:zoltan2 wrote:Well the hound of Dracula is here shadow case.
Shadow CASE? Shadow's Niece, actually...my Uncle, Bret Morrison, was to Old Time Radio's The Shadow what Tom Baker was to Doctor Who. (Only my uncle played the Shadow for ten years not counting a brief hiatus).
Well, first of all...Happy Halloween Zoltan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8ao63u ... re=relatedAnd, secondly...
jesus wasn't the Messiah...nor did He claim to be.
OTHERS (including some of His apostles) claimed that FOR Him because that was the closest thing they could liken Him to in Jewish Tradition and Teaching.
He was the MOSHIAH ("Savior") NOT the Meshiach ("Messiah", "Anointed King"). I have jusyt been working on a blog about this (still unfinished) so I'll quote from that tp save my arthritis-ridden body:
The title is "Who WAS Jesus the Christ?" and it goes on:
"That is something every one who is concerned with the question has to answer for themselves.
I can, however, tell you something about who He was not.
He wasn’t the Jewish Messiah.
Oh, I know, Christian writers, beginning with some of the authors of what we have come to know as the New Testament have argued for millennia that he WAS and have tried to prove it by appeal to Old Testament Prophecies concerning that individual.
Sorry, Jesus doesn’t fill the bill.
The Messiah is human, you see. IF Jesus were merely a human being like you and me then He doesn’t fulfill Messianic Prophecy.
IF Jesus is divine (or even half-divine) He still doesn’t fill the bill. Why? Because the very IDEA of a human being claiming to be of the nature of God is totally outside all Jewish teaching. But let us go to an extremely useful webpage called JUDAISM 101 for more on that.
You see, I’m not really qualified to teach Judaic belief myself, I wasn’t raised in that belief frame. Nor were those Christians who make shift to teach it in Christian Seminaries. We were all raised in a CHRISTIAN weltanschauung-----or world-view. And that means we can’t even READ the Old Testament (the Jewish Bible, I should say) without distorting it to fit our POV.
So, then…from JUDAISM 101 a few facts about the Messiah from THEIR tradition:
“The term ‘mashiach’ literally means ‘the anointed one,’ and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.
The word ‘mashiach’ does not mean ‘savior.’ The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word ‘messiah’ that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word ‘mashiach’ will be used throughout…Some gentiles have told me that the term ‘mashiach’ is related to the Hebrew term ‘moshiah’ (savior) because they sound similar, but the similarity is not as strong as it appears to one unfamiliar with Hebrew. The Hebrew word ‘mashiach’ comes from a root meaning ‘paint, smear, or anoint.’ The word ‘moshiah’ comes from the root Yod-Shin-Ayin, which means to help or save. The only letter these roots have in common is Shin, the most common letter in the Hebrew language. The ‘m’ sound at the beginning of the word moshiah (savior) is a common prefix used to turn a verb into a noun. For example, the verb tzavah (to command) becomes mitzvah (commandment). Saying that ‘mashiach’ is related to ‘moshiah’ is a bit like saying that ring is related to surfing because they both end in ‘ing.’
“Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.”
(You’ll have to click the link to read the biblical passages the author above refers to…these passages are also functioning links at JUDAISM 101 and it would be a pain to re-edit all that).
The main point I want you to understand, though, is that Jesus was NOT the Messiah of Jewish Teaching, Prophecy, and Expectation.
“So who the hell WAS He?” I hear you ask.
He was something…rather special.
First off, He is INDEED the Messiah (Savior) in the Christian sense."
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That's as far as I have gotten with it so far. But the point I will EVENTUALLY be making is that He was something UNLOOKED for in Traditional Judaism but NOT something completely unforeseen. There are HINTS in the Pentateuch and the Prophets that there will be BOTH a Meshiach ben David and a MOSHIAH but it took Christians to confuse the two.
What Jesus brought is a New Covenant with God SEPARATE FROM but not necessarily SUPPLANTING the Mosaic Covenant. Which is why one finds Jesus constantly reassuring His hearers that "not one jot or one tittle of the Law shall pass away until all things be fulfilled". God still has a Covenant with His Chosen People...NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT.
But now God is making a covenant with the whole world. A Covenant that runs on different lines. (Paul can fill you in...he was the chosen messenger for this new covenant).
Lets start with some clarification because Jesus did say he was the Messiah. The first time was in his hometown and then later he got Peter to say that he was the Messiah in front of his 12 disciples. It took a long road so that Jesus was regarded finally by zealots and a mob of followers one week before his crucifixion to be the anointed one Messiah from the Davidic Line and to be King Of the Jews and save the Jews from the Roman Oppression.
The definition of Jewish messianism is from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Messiah, Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ; mashiah, moshiah, mashiach, or moshiach, ("anointed [one]") is a term used in the Hebrew Bible to describe priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil as described in Exodus 30:22-25. For example, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, though not a Hebrew, is referred to as "God's anointed" (Messiah) in the Bible. The term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Standard Hebrew, The Messiah is often referred to as מלך המשיח, Mélekh ha-Mashíaẖ (in the Tiberian vocalization pronounced Méleḵ hamMāšîªḥ), literally meaning "the anointed king."
Traditional and current Orthodox thought have mainly held that the Messiah will be the anointed one (messiah), descended from his father through the Davidic line of King David via Solomon (See Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan), who will gather the Jews back into the Land of Israel, usher in an era of peace, build the Third Temple, have a male heir and re-institute the Sanhedrin, among other things.
One must remember that the first time when Jesus said he was the Messiah he nearly made a fatal mistake announcing it to his hometown. His family though he had lost his mind and the townspeople wanted to throw him down into a ravine.
In an account recorded in the Synoptic Gospels (Mark 6:1-6, Matthew 13:54-58, Luke 4:16-30) Jesus is strongly rejected by the people of his hometown, which Luke specifies as Nazareth.
This is what happened and how the people of Jesus' own home town reacted when he first told them that he was the Messiah.
Jesus made this proclamation in the same small synagogue that Jesus had attended year after year as he was growing up as a child in Nazareth.
He had come home specifically to make this announcement. Jesus probably knew most of the people who were there that day. Many of these people were his oldest and closest friends.
In the New Testament it says .... it begins, as "...he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him..." Jesus read a passage where Isaiah foretold the coming of the "anointed" one. (In the original Greek, the word "anointed" is 'Christ') As Jesus sat down he turned to speak to the assembled crowd. The quote continues, "...The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened upon him, and he said to them
'Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.' "In a bombshell Jesus had just announced that he was the Messiah!
The awe of these people must have felt incredible when they heard this stupendous proclamation? The Jewish people had been yearning for the coming of their Messiah for hundreds of years... and now, there he was, standing right in front of them! The response to this announcement was with no tears of joy.
There was no shouts of of thanksgiving.People did not fall to their knees in gratitude that they had lived to see the coming of the Messiah.
The fact is that all the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff."-Luke 4:16-28
You see Shawdowcass that Jesus wanted to be the Messiah and believed he was the Messiah. I guess the Jews did not think he fitted the bill.
It is Paul who later made Jesus the Savior of the world but that is another story
You say Shawdowcass that Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.
I beg to differ. You are wrong because he did them and more he masterminded his own crucifixion.
Jesus engineer his own messiah ship. He was not the victim but the motivator and the master-chess player.
He was convinced that he was the messiah and had to convinced others.
1 Jesus got himself anointed and baptizes by a prophet which was done by John the Baptist whom many thought that he was the risen Elijah.
2 Raised someone from the dead which he did by raising Lazarus
3.Be betrayed by a trusted friend which was Judas one of his apostles which he convinced him to betray him
4.Be arrested by the Jews and tried by the Romans to be crucified and risen on the third day.
One must realize and question the sentences torn out of context from the Old Testament which the evangelists assert are validations for the messiah ship of Jesus and actually pertain to Jesus
Historically Jewish biblical scholars say they don't. They claim that these utterances in the Old testament ( quotes us by the Gospel Writers ) were used allegorically by Hebrew, patriarchs, kings and prophets and had not Jesus in Mind.
The practice of poring Old testament Wine into New Testament bottles was a brilliant parallelism borrowed from the Jews,
The Jewish scribes had invented this method were adept at citing unrelated sentences in Hebrew scriptures to prove that their assertions in the new Oral Law were mandated by God himself.
It took great faith and courage for Jesus because he knew that his road would end at the cross however I do not beleive that he is the savior of the world.
The created God Universe force cannot have human attributes as having one specific chosen people.
The biblical God Yahweh or Jehovah killed or had more that 1,700.000 people in the bible from men woman and child.
The biblical God especially in the old testament is a very negative egomaniac alien extraterrestrial that controlled the Jews back then.
That is my humble opinion.
Jesus was special and wanted to bring out the love of God who is Universal Cosmic Creative Force that dwells in all of us and in all things.
I know you prefer to keep your little black buggy and horse, with the lantern, for "Sunday go to meetin's". 
