The Black Vault

Who has the answer to what existed in the beginning, before anything, if if wasn't God? Its easy to come up with a theory for "something", but what the theory for when it was "nothing"?

fortwynt wrote:you are assuming, event, that humanity and more specifically life on earth, is the only thing in the whole universe that God has actively been involved in, in that whole billions of years of time.

i say the universe is fully of different modes of creation, life even, much of which is probably not even recognizable to you or i.

Or maybe we can just keep making up more pseudo-religions when science makes a new discovery. How many hundreds of different belief systems have we ever had in the world now? Wouldn't it be safe to just assume there is no "God" until we have some actual proof?...seriously, before the year 2200 (if we make it that far) when we'll be having laser wars over who's got the "God" with the best techno outfit.

Not quite.

Why not just assume that God exists as a logical concept, and reject all religions except our own personal ones?

fortwynt wrote:Not quite.

Why not just assume that God exists as a logical concept, and reject all religions except our own personal ones?

From an empirical standpoint, Faith[assume(believe) that God exists], is still unprovable.
So I guess it is all right if I believe in Magic and Witches and not get persecuted as a Pagan.

assume God exists as a logical concept ............

No thanks

One should be free to believe whatever one wishes.

Personally the concept of an ultimate entity such as God only makes logical sense.

I don't need to have everything "proven" to me in any case....what is "proof" anyway but the observation of a phenomenon through the (limited) human senses....for purposes of a "standard" thats fine, but in the end means very little in the large scheme.

fortwynt wrote:One should be free to believe whatever one wishes.

Personally the concept of an ultimate entity such as God only makes logical sense.

I don't need to have everything "proven" to me in any case....what is "proof" anyway but the observation of a phenomenon through the (limited) human senses....for purposes of a "standard" thats fine, but in the end means very little in the large scheme.

how does an all-seeing, all-knowing being "make logical sense"? so Santa Claus makes logical sense?

How many hundreds of different belief systems have we ever had in the world now? Wouldn't it be safe to just assume there is no "God" until we have some actual proof?...

Maybe for you to assume it, but you know the definition of that! There are many beleif systems, but a Universal belief seems to recognize One God. How many diffenent scientific hypothetis have there been, and how many are proven. The Hubble telescope should be proof enough that all the pieces of the puzzle are still being discovered.

I wonder if they would tell us they actually saw the Pearly Gates with the Hubble, with St. Peter welcoming a long line in. Which line was longer, the Heaven or Hell line? (no laughing matter) Or would they make up a bunch or computer pictures of colors,gases, and stars no body can figure out? That isn't anymore far fetched than thinking they built in explosives at the WTC when they built it. Where are all you conspiracy theory people on this one.

Seriously, if they fear the public learning UFO's exist, how much would they fear actully seeing the Pearly Gates with the Hubble?

A concept of God that is logical? Any conception of God would be imperfect and impossible to define. It can be said that God exist. That there's immortality of the soul, or God has a guiding hand in the evolution of the universe and life. People can believe in anything they wish to believe. I could believe in the invisible pink unicorn but it doesn't make the ipu real. Scientific judgement is based on tested theories. The judgement does not support a supernatural view of the universe.

I suppose it's possible that someday science could invoke some sort of supernatural being as maker and overseer of the universe. This is the hope of the Intelligent Design crowd. It's not that it couldn't happen, it's that it hasn't happened in our world. In the real world, the data that makes up the theoretical framework tells us that everything happens through natural phenomena. No virgin births, no coming back from the dead, no afterlife, and no supernatural being fiddling with the universe. Religion can be defined in many different ways, but science tells us how reality works.

You seem to have it all figured out, and your belief renders the religious beliefs of 4-5 billion people, null and void. Just you, Carl Sagan, and the rest of us dummies! They should all forsake God becasue you say its logical, becasue you can't comprehend what their faith is, in the face of scientific discoveries.

Only a few things missing in all your scientific evidence. The part that proved God does not exist. The part Heaven and Hell do not exist. The part that the story of Jesus did not exist. Did I miss this in your scientific tests or studies that delt with this? Seems like its your own deductions from your own belief, that whatever you have proven just eliminates the others by process of elimination. Not very scientific.

There are many things science does not have the answer for, and many things still to be answered in the world science can decipher. What science deal with what Faith is, or things like positive/negative thoughts, how people telegraph toughts at the same time when they are close, Preminitions, why we have different thoughts and ideas. What science deals with things that are not forces of nature, physical things that can't see be seen/herd/touched. The existance of God, or what was in the void we call our Universe, in the beginning. What isn't logical is thinking God doesn't exist from only a little scientific information.

Humans lacking in understanding of the universe does NOT mean that there is a God or ever was one.

We can´t even make wormholes yet and you all think you know the truth, please just shut it