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God Is Imaginary: Try Praying & Statistically Analyze Prayer

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Postby at1with0 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:41 am

I think it would be interesting to get a soldier's take on what he or she is actually fighting for.
I'm sure some of the time, GOD would be an answer. But how many of them think they are a soldier of God or a soldier of the United States of America?
I don't know any soldiers so I can't ask them.
I would surmise that a large number of soldiers who have seen combat would not say they are defending Christianity like the knights of the Crusades but like I said there's none I can ask.
And then it would also be interesting to poll some of "the enemy" and learn what they are fighting for.
There is a lot of craziness in the world and it's quite possible that they are letting the Koran do their thinking for them. There is a line in there about infidels should be killed..I should dig up the exact wording.
I'm not a gigantic fan of organized religion but I believe that it's a gross oversimplification to say the conflict is merely religious and religious only, nor do I want to neglect the occasional benefits of organized religion.
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Postby humphreys » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:59 am

I think most soldiers will tell you they're fighting to protect their country, and because they're told to, because it's their job.

However, the war in Afghanistan for example is supposedly a retaliation for 9/11, which was a religiously fueled attack on the WTC. Religion lurks behind it.

Bush says God told him to go to war. Again, religion lurks.

Take away religion, and sure, there will still be conflict, but many of the main justifications for war would disappear. Division causes conflict, conflict leads to war, and religion causes division like nothing else in existence.

Religion plays a major role. Faith is actually the biggest culprit, because when there is doubt about ones beliefs, there is moderation. If you're not certain about a belief, you're less likely to want to die for it, and if you don't want to die for your beliefs you won't drive a plane into a tower on a suicide mission or go on a crusade, or torture others for thinking differently to you.

Faith is a great evil because it makes us certain about something for which the evidence is lacking, and that certainty is what creates the fanaticism that leads to deaths. Religion takes that faith and concentrates it into a more dangerous form, so instead of one lone nutter who is certain he is right, you end up with millions working in unison. Frightening. And yes, faith can be involved in non-religious belief systems too, like communism, and the end result is the same.
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Postby at1with0 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:07 pm

humphreys wrote:I think most soldiers will tell you they're fighting to protect their country, and because they're told to, because it's their job.

However, the war in Afghanistan for example is supposedly a retaliation for 9/11, which was a religiously fueled attack on the WTC. Religion lurks behind it.

Bush says God told him to go to war. Again, religion lurks.

Take away religion, and sure, there will still be conflict, but many of the main justifications for war would disappear. Division causes conflict, conflict leads to war, and religion causes division like nothing else in existence.

Religion plays a major role. Faith is actually the biggest culprit, because when there is doubt about ones beliefs, there is moderation. If you're not certain about a belief, you're less likely to want to die for it, and if you don't want to die for your beliefs you won't drive a plane into a tower on a suicide mission or go on a crusade, or torture others for thinking differently to you.

Faith is a great evil because it makes us certain about something for which the evidence is lacking, and that certainty is what creates the fanaticism that leads to deaths. Religion takes that faith and concentrates it into a more dangerous form, so instead of one lone nutter who is certain he is right, you end up with millions working in unison. Frightening. And yes, faith can be involved in non-religious belief systems too, like communism, and the end result is the same.


The world is broken, yes.

Scary stuff.

I would say that faith is not a great evil any more than atomic energy or gravity is a great evil.
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Postby OraProNobis » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:25 pm

Humphreys wrote:
However, the war in Afghanistan for example is supposedly a retaliation for 9/11, which was a religiously fueled attack on the WTC. Religion lurks behind it.

Bush says God told him to go to war. Again, religion lurks.

Take away religion, and sure, there will still be conflict, but many of the main justifications for war would disappear. Division causes conflict, conflict leads to war, and religion causes division like nothing else in existence.

Religion plays a major role. Faith is actually the biggest culprit, because when there is doubt about ones beliefs, there is moderation. If you're not certain about a belief, you're less likely to want to die for it, and if you don't want to die for your beliefs you won't drive a plane into a tower on a suicide mission or go on a crusade, or torture others for thinking differently to you.


And those are all lies using religion as the false flag for the real motives behind war, most of the time. Greed , power and control.

Religion is not the cause of most wars . It is humans succumbing to the lust for power, and control of natural resources, or land.
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Postby event_horizon » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:18 am

OraProNobis wrote:And those are all lies using religion as the false flag for the real motives behind war, most of the time. Greed , power and control.


Please tell me how these small bands of Muslim extremists (or even the entire Middle East) would be able to defeat our powerful military (including NATO), just so they could gain more power, control, and wealth. They have no chance against us, unless they were to use nukes, which they would get in return, or some virus that would eventually wipe out everybody.

"Greed, power and control" cannot be their motive. It's "Jihad".

OraProNobis wrote:Religion is not the cause of most wars . It is humans succumbing to the lust for power, and control of natural resources, or land.


Then what "caused" Muslims to run planes into the Twin Towers?
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Postby OraProNobis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:54 pm


event_horizon wrote:
Then what "caused" Muslims to run planes into the Twin Towers?


I don't believe it was muslims , at least not for religious purposes. They may have been used as a decoy, and set up to do it, but something far more sinister was behind 911, in my honest opinion.
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Postby Sleepwalk » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:33 pm

event_horizon wrote:Proof #1 - Try Praying

How might we prove that God is imaginary? One way would be to find a contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction) between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world.

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... rally_true), "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts.

In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIV;]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:
All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless (http://godisimaginary.com/i39.htm) being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.

Image
Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.


If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered (http://godisimaginary.com/i9.htm).

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. Yet when we pray, nothing happens (for a complete discussion proving that nothing happens, please see this page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm). What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true. Therefore, one of two things must be happening:

- God is imaginary.
- God does exist, but he never answers prayers. Unfortunately, God is defined by the Bible to be a prayer-answering being. The contradiction between the reality of God and the definition of God proves that God is imaginary.

In fact, we have ample scientific evidence to demonstrate that the belief in prayer is nothing but pure superstition, as shown in the next proof...http://godisimaginary.com/i2.htm

Understanding the Rationalizations:

A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate cancer is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible?

If Jesus is God, and if God is perfect, why aren't all of Jesus's verses about prayer true? Was Jesus exagerating? Was he fibbing? If Jesus is perfect, why wouldn't he speak the truth? Why doesn't a prayer to cure cancer worldwide tomorrow work?

Believers have many different ways to explain why all these verses in the Bible do not work, even if you are praying sincerely, unselfishly and non-materialistically, and even if the answer to your prayer would help millions of people and glorify God in the process. They will say things like this:

"You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..."

or:

"When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..."

or:

God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... [ref: http://www.torahbytes.org/63-45.htm]

The primary problem with these rationalizations is that they miss the point. The fact is that God never answers any prayers, as discussed here (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm).

Going one step further, the problem is that all of these rationalizations miss two other important points:

1. God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being.
2. The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you.

If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.

Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.


God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not. Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary? Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.
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Postby OraProNobis » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:43 pm

Sleepwalk wrote:
God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not. Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary? Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.


That was beautiful.

Thank you.

I needed to read something of that nature today.
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Postby at1with0 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:03 pm

If it's impossible to prove a negative why does EH keep trying?
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Postby event_horizon » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:34 pm

Sleepwalk wrote:God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not.


If "God" has "unlimited power," then why does "He" allow "Satan" to run rampant on "His" creation?

Sleepwalk wrote:Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary?


They simply don't.

Sleepwalk wrote:Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.


Not sure what any of this has to do with the statistical analyzing of prayer.
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