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Gay Marriage - Just Say No !!!!

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Postby at1with0 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:38 pm

Wing-Zero wrote:
at1with0 wrote:So you don't see a difference between sex and cannibalism and murder?


I believe what he's going for is that, while animals don't acknowledge that sort understanding and consequence of actions, humans do.

I got that. What negative consequences are we talking about here that compare to cannibalism and murder?
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Postby Wing-Zero » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:44 pm

at1with0 wrote:
Wing-Zero wrote:
at1with0 wrote:So you don't see a difference between sex and cannibalism and murder?


I believe what he's going for is that, while animals don't acknowledge that sort understanding and consequence of actions, humans do.

I got that. What negative consequences are we talking about here that compare to cannibalism and murder?


Ah, that's a lot better.
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Postby bionic » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:20 pm

it's not sexuality that is an issue, here..that you are discussing now, I see

I think I see where you are going with this..it's more about breaking trust..people..all people should try to be more honest..to ourselves and those that we care for and care about us..I guess..we should all try and work toward that

everybody needs to be more forgiving, more graceful of themseves and everyone else

not for for their sexuality..however that may be..but maybe for not be genuine with themselves and those that care and are cared for

people..get hurt

it's apples and oranges, actually

an honest person, gay, or straight, or bi, or none of the above, or all of the above..if they go into life and their raltionships being honest about themselves to themselves and the people they care for it makes for less damage in the long run

shoot

the problem is not in the sexuality..it's in the lying
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:55 pm

Have any thoughts regarding gay marriage?
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Postby bionic » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:47 pm

I am for it
I use to just be for "civil unions" (realizingthat civil unions will replace marriage..a rose is a rose..I kindafelt/feel the word should be considered antiquated)

But I am now totally cool with using the marriage word for homosexuals as well as heterosexuals, et all
With all the divorce, remarriages, kids all over the place bs that goes on today..who is anyone to judge?

as, you know, I am a fan of polygamy, too
Love that show, Sisterwives

truth is..polls show, people aren't even getting married anymore

so...

time for a new paradigm, I guess

or maybe it's cyclical

I dunno
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Postby Guest » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:04 am

greeney2 wrote:tichan, this is an old subject but since you dredged it out, tha animal observation theory is about as stupid of an argument, as anyone could defend homosexuality with. But if you insist, thinking the human mind computes on a level equal to a fruit fly, worm, or frog is ignorant. 1500 species represents a fraction of a .00 1% percent of all species, and of the 1500 there are millions upon millions, of different animal species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species.

Secondly, the sexual habits of a worm, knat, or reptile in no way represents those of a intellegent life forms in any way, shape, or form, and claiming that of the worm has some sort of "same sex attraction" is ludicras .

Equally stupid would be the logic that if the animal kingdom kills one another, and many will eat their young,(maybe 1500 of them) humans should be considered normal for canniblism. That murder is a natural and normal act of nature, so its normal for humans, and murder should be legal. Just observe any tropical fish tank, if you fit inside someone else mouth, you become dinner, and humans do not ear their babies.

Animals are not capable of intellectual thinking, they are not capable of even knowing what constitutes right or wrong, moral or immoral, capable of mating with non-related species. They couldn't care less if they pooped on your front lawn or you priceless Perian Rug. The genetic program of the animal kingdom separates the species and rendered reproduction of most unlike species impossible. There has never been observed a same sex attaction of unlike species. Never been a snake fall in love with a rat, a bird with a worm, or a lion with a antalope. Many species of the animal and bird kingdom do mate only with a single mate for life. Fish return to the very stream they were born in to spawn and die.

The theory of these animal observations, is some basis for a emotional same sex human behavior, is a far far stretch and not even sensible.


I beg to differ you are completely wrong. Please find below evidence of the opposite. It is not a question of right or wrong. Its all a question of genetics.
Animals do feel love compassion and are attracted to same sex partners or both.

DOG AND DEER IN LOVE! (KATE AND PIPPIN THE DOE).flv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xU5h1paYQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEq9bWpw1M


Man's Best Friend...A 17ft Long Pet Crocodile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnWuOwewZSM

Fisherman and Crocodile!.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF42-tCGGUA

The Crocodile Whisperer.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnWuOwewZSM

Weird, True and Freaky: Lion Adopts Antelope.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJYIEk5n6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZw-1BfHFKM

crow adopts kittens
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ttens&aq=f

Bird and cat in love Tweety and Sylverster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0u8TzOYrA

Cat babysitting baby Chicks..mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M4ea1WE4Pc

Wild Mountain Gorilla Grieves For Her Dead Baby‏-Gil Arbel-Rwanda 2009 gilarbel@hotmail.com.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_szdrHpswg

Death of a kitty, a very sad story of Koko gorilla and a kitten Moe.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSySReObig


Koko: A Talking Gorilla [1/8].mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmuu8UEi2ko

Interspecies Homosexual Lovemaking.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I7EMYDpK0

Gay Male Kangaroos.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGh8toBouno

Real Animal Hybrids/Crossbreeding!.flv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlTm47xnJE

cross breed of horse and a zebra?.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6B-8OTd_OQ

Cat Dog Crossbreed.flv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcf8p3yq-PI

Interspecies Lovin'.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAL-TS-A08

The Dog, Cat, Rat.mp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YzuHuBLT7k

Tiger and Dog Mating?.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TmSwF0mejg

Gay worms get down and dirty with their mates
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/s ... 741036.ece


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKAL-TS-A08

List of animals displaying homosexual behavior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an ... l_behavior


Main article: List of mammals displaying homosexual behavior

Selected mammals from the full list:

African Elephant[16]
Brown Bear[17]
Brown Rat[18]
Buffalo[19]
African Lion



Caribou[20]
Cat (domestic)[21]
Cheetah[22]
Common Dolphin[23]
Orca



Common Marmoset[24]
Common Raccoon[25]
Dog (domestic)[26]
European Bison[27]
Human
Prea[28]

[edit] Birds
Main article: List of birds displaying homosexual behavior

Selected birds from the full list:

Chicken (Domestic)[29]
Common Gull[30]



Emu[31]
King Penguin[32]

[edit] Fish
Arctic Grayling (Thymallus arcticus) leaping for a fly fisherman's bait. Research going back to the 1950s has shown both male and female Graylings exhibit homosexual behavior.[33]

Amazon molly[34]
Blackstripe topminnow[35]
Bluegill Sunfish[35]
Char[33]
Grayling[33]
European Bitterling[36]
Green swordtail[36]
Guiana leaffish[37]
Houting Whitefish[33]
Jewel Fish[38]
Least Darter (Microperca punctulata)[36]
Mouthbreeding Fish sp.[35]
Salmon spp.[39]
Southern platyfish[36]
Ten-spined stickleback[36]
Three-spined stickleback[36]


[edit] Reptiles

Anole sp.[40]
Bearded Dragon[41]
Broad-headed Skink[36]
Checkered Whiptail Lizard[41]
Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard[41]
Common Ameiva[41]
Common Garter Snake[36]
Cuban Green Anole[40]
Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard[41]
Desert Tortoise[42]
Fence Lizard[41]
Five-lined Skink[36]
Gopher (Pine) Snake[35]
Green Anole[40]
Inagua Curlytail Lizard[41]



Jamaican Giant Anole[40]
Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard[41]
Largehead Anole[40]
Mourning Gecko[43]
Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard[41]
Red Diamond Rattlesnake[36]
Red-tailed Skink[36]
Side-blotched Lizard[41]
Speckled Rattlesnake[36]
Water Moccasin[36]
Western rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis)[36]
Western Banded Gecko[43]
Whiptail Lizard spp.[41]
Wood Turtle[40]

[edit] Amphibians

Appalachian Woodland Salamander[44]
Black-spotted Frog[45]
Mountain Dusky Salamander[44]
Tengger Desert Toad[40]

[edit] Insects and other invertebrates

Acanthocephalan Worms[46]
Alfalfa Weevil[47]
Australian Parasitic Wasp sp.[47]
Bean weevil sp.[47]
Bedbug and other Bug spp.[48][49]
Blister Beetle spp.[50]
Blood-flukes (Schistosoma)[51]
Blowfly[50]
Box Crab[52]
Broadwinged Damselfly sp.[53]
Cabbage (Small) White (Butterfly)[54]
Checkerspot Butterfly[54]
Clubtail Dragonfly spp.[55]
Cockroach spp.[56]
Common Skimmer Dragonfly spp.[55]
Creeping Water Bug sp.[57]
Cutworm[58]
Digger Bee[59]
Dragonfly spp.[55]
Eastern Giant Ichneumon (wasp)[47]
Eucalyptus Longhorned Borer[57]
Field cricket sp.[60]
Flour beetle[61]
Fruit Fly spp.[62]
Glasswing Butterfly[54]
Grape Berry Moth[63]
Grape Borer[57]
Green Lacewing[64]



Harvest Spider sp.[65]
Hawaiian Orb-Weaver (spider)[65]
Hen Flea[64]
House Fly[66]
Ichneumon wasp sp.[47]
Incirrate Octopus spp.[52]
Japanese Scarab Beetle[67]
Jumping spider sp.[65]
Larch Bud Moth[63]
Large Milkweed Bug[49]
Large White (Pieris brassicae)[49]
Long-legged Fly spp.[68]
Mazarine Blue[49]
Mediterranean Fruit Fly[62]
Mexican White[49]
Midge sp.[68]
Migratory locust[69]
Mite sp.[68]
Monarch Butterfly[54]
Narrow-winged Damselfly spp.[53]
Parsnip Leaf Miner[68]
Pomace fly[68]
Queen Butterfly[54]
Red Ant sp.[68]
Red Flour Beetle[49]
Reindeer Warble Fly (Hypoderma tarandi)[68]
Rose Chafer[68]
Rove Beetle spp.[49]


Male flour beetles are believed by scientists to engage in gay sex to practice mating as well as rid themselves of "old, less effective" sperm.[61]


Scarab Beetle (Melolonthine)[70]
Screwworm Fly[68]
Silkworm Moth[63]
Sociable Weaver[68]
Southeastern Blueberry Bee[59]
Southern Green Stink Bug[49]
Southern Masked Chafer[68]
Southern One-Year Canegrub[68]
Spreadwinged Damselfly spp.[53]
Spruce Budworm Moth[63]
Stable Fly sp.[68]
Stag Beetle spp.[49]
Tsetse Fly[68]
Water Boatman Bug[49]
Water Strider spp.[49]
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 am

Human behavior justified by a list mostly of cold blooded reptiles, birds, and even more of insects? If your mammal list is selective, you list no examples of monkeys or apes, to which we have all seen what they do in the zoo. If the number next to the mammal represents the #s or them observed, caribu alone are found in herds of over 100,000 so what are the %ages of total numbers, and exactly what behavior was specifically observed that relates to a intellegent human?

If you are going to be honest with a study of animals, the rare flook in terms of % of total numbers, becomes only a rare occurance. A real study would also reviel that encounters result in rejection, as in the pitbulls that instantly fight. Dominate males in herds fight and drive off old bulls, and take over herds in many cases. Many or most in the animal kingdom the males are not even part of the female, after mating one time they are not part of any further process. In some cases males continue with the female and after birth, but not in all cases. So if you are going to consider the flooks of nature, you have to also consider the norms of nature, and they do not support any conclusion for humans. They will reject each other and fight to the death. They will kill and eat their young, they will kill and eat each other. These things are natural to them, but not for humans. We were given a soul and a conscience, the abiltity to know right from wrong.

There are countless behaviors of humans that are not a part of animal life. Humans all contain some of the basic traits only becasue we are part of the chain of life. We are either prey or preditors, we all have the same needs for food, water, and air. We all are born and we all die, and the basic sense to see, hear, feel, taste, and smell. We all reproduce, but not all by the same means, and we all can only reproduce within our species. The natural order of all living things is to "go forth and multiply". There is always (with only a few exceptions) only one natural way to do that.

The general term of Homosexual behavior is not clearly defined and does not even specify if that behavior is an expression of emotion which would be pretty hard to determain in a worm, beetle, or a cold blooded snake. None of which has a thing to do with homosexual marriage that this thread is about.
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Postby Guest » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:44 pm

Animal sexual behaviour takes many different forms, even within the same species. Researchers have observed monogamy, promiscuity, sex between species, sexual arousal from objects or places, sex apparently via duress or coercion, copulation with dead animals, homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual sexual behaviour, and situational sexual behaviour and a range of other practices among animals other than humans. Related studies have noted diversity in sexed bodies and gendered behaviour, such as intersex and transgender animals.

The study of animal sexuality (and primate sexuality especially) is a rapidly developing field. It used to be believed that only humans and a handful of other species performed sexual acts other than for procreation, and that animals' sexuality was instinctive and a simple response to the "right" stimulation (sight, scent). Current understanding is that many species that were formerly believed monogamous have now been proven to be promiscuous or opportunistic in nature; a wide range of species appear both to masturbate and to use objects as tools to help them do so; in many species animals try to give and get sexual stimulation with others where procreation is not the aim; and homosexual behaviour has now been observed among 1,500 species and in 500 of those it is well documented.[1


Homosexual behavior in primates: A review of evidence and theory

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t18t2213605303j7/


Paul L. Vasey


Homosexual behavior is defined as genital contact, genital manipulation or both between same-sex individuals. Available data indicate that this behavior is phylogenetically widespread among the anthropoid primates, but totally absent among prosimians. The majority of the 33 species that demonstrate homosexual behavior do so rarefy, but for a substantial number (N =12) it appears to be a more common pattern under free-ranging conditions. I summarize data on homosexual behavior as it relates to form, living condition, age, sex, social organization, and ecological context, and discuss hormonal, demographic, and sociosexual theories for primate homosexual behavior. Among adult primates, the behavior is not the product of abnormal excesses or deficiencies in androgens. Prenatal excesses of androgens may have some effect on the expression of female homosexual behavior, but these effects might vary over the life span, and data are equivocal at present. Demographic processes that result in skewed sex ratios can favor the expression of homosexual behavior in a population, which causes intraspecific variation. I examine several sociosexual explanations, including (a) proceptivity enhancement, (b) receptivity reduction, (c) dominance assertion, (d) practice for heterosexual copulation, (e) tension regulation, (f) reconciliation, and (g) alliance formation. An evolutionary scenario highlights the transformations this behavior underwent during the evolution of the anthropoid primates. I suggest exaptation as a theoretical framework for interpreting homosexual behavior and conclude that future consideration of sexual selection among primates should address homosexual components of this process.

My point greeny is that animals have the same sexual orientation as human.
They can be gay straight bisexual and also can have only one sexual partner for life.

I am sure that God doesn't point the finger at them and they sure do not feel guilty about it.

So therefore why can humans not be gay straight or bisexual and also have one partner gay or straight for life and be married.

Here in Canada gay marriage is equal to straight marriage. The government as even change the definition of marriage .

No one as lost any sleep over it.

In the beginning I had a hard time with lesbian and two men kissing or holding hands.
Now i feel very at ease and some of them have very high morals and are intellectual very deep.

Its all in the genes and determine also in the womb and the amount of testosterone during the embryo gestation.
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Postby Guest » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:55 pm

I forgot so yes for gay marriage in the full sense of the term as straight marriage
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Postby greeney2 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:59 pm

1500 is what % of 1,600,000 species, and the overwhelming part of your list was insects, cold blooded reptiles, and birds. This leaves 1,598,500 species who have not shown any homosexual behavior. Only a few mammals were on your list out of almost 6000. Hardly any amount of percentage to make any conclusion from, and again no definate definition or criteria given to the validy of each species suposed observed behavior.

You are free to believe what you want to, and believe in gay marriage, however this argument is totally baseless.

If anything the species not observed showing homosexual behavior(1,598,500 other species) by a margin of 1000 times greater numbers of total species, prooves it is not a natural occurance, nor is it a normal anamoly found in animals. At best, a very rare occurance, in some isolated cases, subject to many factors.

What actual behavior was observed, and how did they determain the intent of the behavior. Also shows no proof that those observed were normal, healthy animals, and free of other factors affecting behavior, such as disease, sickness, or brain abnormality. Many diseases pleage the animal world, from tick/flea born diseases, to species that are carriers of diseases that can affect them. Lyme disease, rocky mountain spotted fever, many blood and tick born things that spread from rodents by ticks, and onto other hosts they bite. Including humans! They can carry many internal diseases, blood diseases, viruses, bubonic plege, be affected by polutions, insecticides, enviormental problems affecting food supplies, etc. There are many variables that your study may not fully address, and therefore makes them not conclusive at all. Just the numbers alone do that.

Its an interesting subject but definatly not a justification of gay marriage, or even homosexual behavior therfore being normal. The numbers of non-affected species prooves otherwise, if that is going to determain that question. The chart below shows approx numbers of different species, and 1500 is a literal drop in the bucket.


Numbers of species
Undiscovered and discovered species[verification needed][citation needed]Bearing in mind the aforementioned problems with categorising species, the following numbers are only a soft guide. In 2007, they broke down as follows:[15]

Total number of species (estimated): 7–100 millions (identified and unidentified), including:

5–10 million bacteria;[16]
74,000–120,000 fungi;[17]
Of the identified eukaryote species we have:[15]

1.6 million, including:
297,326 plants, including:
15,000 mosses,
13,025 Ferns and horsetails,
980 gymnosperms,
258,650 angiosperms,
199,350 dicotyledons,
59,300 monocotyledons,
9,671 Red and green algae,
28,849 fungi & other non-animals, including:
10,000 lichens,
16,000 mushrooms,
2,849 brown algae,
1,250,000 animals, including:
1,203,375 invertebrates:
950,000 insects,
81,000 mollusks,
40,000 crustaceans,
2,175 corals,
130,200 others;
59,811 vertebrates:
29,300 fish,
6,199 amphibians,
8,240 reptiles,
9,956 birds,
5,416 mammals
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