The Black Vault

DIss0n80r wrote:

at1with0 wrote:

DIss0n80r wrote:That's insane. People are just gonna do what they want to do, anyway? So laws are pointless? You're a fruit loop.

+1

at1with0 wrote:I think analyzing the data to study the effectiveness of gun control, one HAS to subdivide the data into at least two categories, crimes committed with a gun and without. The difference between crimes with guns and crimes without using guns is going to be the only thing that would prove or disprove the effectiveness of gun control.

rath wrote:

capricorn wrote:Rath, sometimes I wonder why I even respond to you.

The fraser institude is a credible organization. The science is there, the facts are there... closing your eyes and saying otherwise is simply ignorant.

But lets get right to the point


http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violen ... ctims.html

You say that the Fraser institute is a credible organization, yet you abandon your use of their site & instead use the link to the site i provided .

For shame.

capricorn wrote:Well, I did provide the link to the spreadsheet just below the image.

Homicide spiked in 1999, 3 years after gun control went effect, and again in 2002, 6 years after gun control went into affect. It fell in 2007, but there is no proof it was related to gun control nor has any decline shown to be consistently dropping. You cant just measure 1 year and say that gun control has worked.

Assault, Sexual Assault and Kidnapping however has consistently risen. Robbery hasnt changed much, but that was after 7 consecutive years of it rising after the law went into affect.

If you are going to measure the affects to Gun control, you have to account for all crimes statistics which are not looking good down under

rath wrote:

greeney2 wrote:You have your own problems to solve in Australia! Gun control did not solve them.
emerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," D.C. Examiner, April 8, 2009.

Full Article List

Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape. Since when.

Rape is rape, forced sexual intercourse without consent. ...... where as sexual assault is a large & more varied rage of crimes. Sexual assault is more like second degree rape, & can be anything from slapping a co worker on the arse, to trying to kiss or fondle a person at a bar while you where drunk.

ERGO ....... Sexual assault is a far cry from Rape.

So it is very clear the author of this story has fiddled with the facts to create a bias, in the hope of pushing their own agenda.

But the facts are the facts. Gun crime is down in Australia because the Australian people & the Australian Government banned all assault weapons & semi automatic weapons after the Port Arthur

Also, Australia's overall rise in crime is on par with the rest of the world. & has little to do with the actual rise in crime & more to do with the fact that the Australian government like other governments around the world have passed laws & criminalized more & more activity's.


Example ......

Take a look at the crime figure's of the 1900 - 1950 ....... Crime was very low back then.
Not because crime was not around, but because crime cartels where not illegal until much latter, as was the case with many things we would consider a crime today.

Example ..... Drugs like opium's, heroin, cocaine marijuana ..... beating a woman or Beating & killing your black slave was not a crime. child abuse went on with impunity ..... Drink driving was not even a crime. running a red light, parking for days with no need for a parking permit. .....

So forth so on ect ect.

crime has gone up' not because crime is on the rise. But because governments criminalize more & more activity's every year.

capricorn wrote:

at1with0 wrote:I think analyzing the data to study the effectiveness of gun control, one HAS to subdivide the data into at least two categories, crimes committed with a gun and without. The difference between crimes with guns and crimes without using guns is going to be the only thing that would prove or disprove the effectiveness of gun control.

I'll tell you what, you don't even need perform a study. I'll even concede to the fact that the number of crimes committed with a gun will probably fall near 0%. Obviously, if guns are hard to come by, then guns cant be used. However, again my argument is it will have no affect on overall crime. Isnt this what we are esentially trying to do figure out? How to reduce crime??

People will still murder and kill regardless if its with a gun or not. So then I ask you, what is your goal with gun control? Just to say that people aren't killing with guns anymore???

However, if you want to solve the problem of crime, gun control is not your answer. In fact, as the stats show, it can even have the reserve affect.

As far as using airplanes as human guided missiles, that was solved with installing a $20 lock on the cabin door. All the other TSA stuff is there to inconvenience americans and has cost us all much more than its worth. Much like Gun Control would.

rath wrote:Like i said already.

at1with0 wrote:if ONE life is saved because of increased security with guns (via an agency similar in purpose and scope to the TSA), then it is worth it.

rath wrote:Yet you still have not shown an overall rise in crime .... & you cant.

capricorn wrote:

at1with0 wrote:Is your point here that there is no point in criminalizing something that people are just gonna do anyway?

But in regards to this conversation, my point here is that Guns are not the problem, there are various other factors which contribute to overall violence.
Education (or lack thereof)
Prescription Drugs
The Mentally Ill
The desensitizing of culture (In relation to Violence in Media).

Again, you can outlaw guns, but psychopaths will turn to other means of violence. Look at what the terrorists did on 9/11. Should we ban airplanes because of it? Of course not! The core of the problem isn't airplanes, it is something else.

capricorn wrote:

rath wrote:Yet you still have not shown an overall rise in crime .... & you cant.

Overall crime figures rise 6pc in Qld
By Eric Tlozek, Charmaine Kane and Bruce Atkinson
Updated Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:23pm AEDT
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-24/o ... ld/4331272