The Black Vault

When a Priest hears a Confession, he is ordained and bound by his vow as a Priest, and can not devudge that Confession to anyone, no matter how serious the Confession was. It is a Sacrament in the Catholic religion but not in others, nor is it a practice to hear Confessions in other religions. The duties of a priest concerning Confessions would not allow a priest to testify the contents of a Confession. We are a country with freedom of Religion, and we can not compell a Priest to violate his vows as a ordained Priest. What do we do?

I'm wondering exactly what part of the constitution would be violated if Catholic priests were compelled to report serious crimes told to them during confession.

My first thought is the fifth amendment.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Almost...

MAybe it is the next statement after that, NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE AND LIBERTY. The right to freedom of religion allows for confession if its your religion. The US supreme court and other countries honor clegy confession are confidential like attorney client privilage.

greeney2 wrote:MAybe it is the next statement after that, NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE AND LIBERTY. The right to freedom of religion allows for confession if its your religion. The US supreme court and other countries honor clegy confession are confidential like attorney client privilage.

That's the way I interpret it as well.

I know what the law and answer is, I just wanted to throw the question out to the group, who many many that are very anti-religion, if they respect the santity of a religious rite, and religious freedom. It is not an easy issue, nor is attorney client privilage because it forces the one who has to be silent into knowingly be the cause of future crimes and possible victims of violent ones.

What if a priest or attorney herd someone killed or raped someone, and knew they were going to keep doing it? They are bound to not devudge it, while a new victim is in the making. Maybe there would be some loophole in their vow or duty, to where their oaths also include saving lives? IMHO whoever confessed if they were continuing, renders the Confession friviolous or invalid, and anything can be devulged??? Or if a Priest herd the Confession of another Pedifile Priest, what should they do? When does the church in these cases have to turn to the governments judicial process, instead of the process within the religion if we have separation of church and state. This was one of the objections to the catholic church, keeping the problem within the church. This is one where we have a real moral conflict within our laws, and what is right and wrong.

confession was invented by the Romans..it is complete BS..it was a way to obtain money, origionally..BUT..by way of spirtual alchemy, it has turned into a sort of, Catholic version of therapy..which, I am sure, helps people..so well.. whoopie for confession..if it helps people

bionic wrote:confession was invented by the Romans..it is complete BS..it was a way to obtain money, origionally..BUT..by way of spirtual alchemy, it has turned into a sort of, Catholic version of therapy..which, I am sure, helps people..so well.. whoopie for confession..if it helps people

in 1215 the Vatican issued Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council.
It enslave you by keeping you in line.
You could sin as much as you wanted and just confess your sin and hoops you were absolved no matter all you did
Cool system between the mafia and the Church. Kill Confess forgiven.
You could also bypass purgatory or even hell if you bought a lot of indulgences

In 1190 the Vatican issue the sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.

After sinners are absolved in the confessional and say their Our Fathers or Hail Marys as penance, they still face punishment after death, in Purgatory, before they can enter heaven. In exchange for certain prayers, devotions or pilgrimages in special years, a Catholic can receive an indulgence, which reduces or erases that punishment instantly, with no formal ceremony or sacrament.

There are partial indulgences, which reduce purgatorial time by a certain number of days or years, and plenary indulgences, which eliminate all of it, until another sin is committed. You can get one for yourself, or for someone who is dead. You cannot buy one — the church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567 — but charitable contributions, combined with other acts, can help you earn one. There is a limit of one plenary indulgence per sinner per day.

Confession reminds me of steps 8 and 9 in twelve step programs.
But a lot more than simply listing "sins" goes on than that.
What I'm trying to say is that confession is a first step towards genuine self-improvement if not taken so lightly as merely listing "sins".

Confession also is meaningless without the ingrediant of true remorse. Great to sum it up that a Mafia hit man can just murder, confess, and be forgiven, but it doesn't work that way, and you know it if you were a Catholic. If you have a anti-catholic agenda, like you do Tichen, you would like to make it sound convincing, but no real Catholic beleives that characterization. You know Zoltan that Catholics are also taught to concept of being truly sorry for their sins, when they make a Confession. You also know that Confession is not complete until you have recieved Communion.

But the question of this is should a Priests knowledge of a capital crime, be considered as confidential as attorney client privilage, where they are bound to not reviel of devulge that Confession, and protected from prosocution for refusing?

greeney2 wrote:Confession also is meaningless without the ingrediant of true remorse. Great to sum it up that a Mafia hit man can just murder, confess, and be forgiven, but it doesn't work that way, and you know it if you were a Catholic. If you have a anti-catholic agenda, like you do Tichen, you would like to make it sound convincing, but no real Catholic beleives that characterization. You know Zoltan that Catholics are also taught to concept of being truly sorry for their sins, when they make a Confession. You also know that Confession is not complete until you have recieved Communion.

But the question of this is should a Priests knowledge of a capital crime, be considered as confidential as attorney client privilage, where they are bound to not reviel of devulge that Confession, and protected from prosocution for refusing?

Well my friend bishops and priests through out the Catholic Church empire have confess to their father confessors theirs sins of pederasty and yet they still continue.
They sure confessed and repented served mass again and sined again. Yours words but no real Catholic believes that characterization...... is completely false in my eyes or else the Catholic Church would not be dishing out billions of dollars for nothing.

The minute you have the absolution said your aves and paters you can receive communion. Do not forget I was a alter boy . Believe me many Catholics are not so true Catholics as you seem to be.

The reality is that Confession is an invention of man and instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council 1215.
And this from the same pope that in that same year of his rise to the Papacy, he suppressed all records of earlier Church history by establishing the Secret Archives plus the following

1. That Pope Innocent III did promote the Inquisition throughout Europe causing the murder of over one million (1,000,000) innocent people through terrible torture and public human sacrifice aimed at promoting the principles of Satanism
2. Of obstruction of basic rights and dignities of being a human being to think (1198) That Pope Innocent III did issue a Papal Bull declaring "anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with church dogma must be burned without pity". That such action so fundamentally goes against all historical principles of the basic rights and dignities of being a human being that it represents one of the lowest marks of history concerning humanity.

3. In 1200 Pope Innocent III did publish a Papal Bull granting church ownership of all wealth and property belonging to individuals convicted of heresy. This Papal Bull represents the birth of the all-powerful Arch-Bishops (Cardinals) of the Roman Catholic Church, who robbed Kings, Queens and Princes to gain wealth, versus Royal families that fought back, therefore the death of many tens of thousands of people over the next few centuries.

4. During 1198-1216 That Pope Innocent III obtained property through Fraud and extortion using threat of excommunication (1198-1216), That Pope Innocent III did deliberately threaten and extort money, possessions and land across the world using the threat of excommunication, therefore heresy, therefore legal possession of property to the church. That By the end of his reign, the Vatican had stolen land and property to become the temporal ruler of Naples, of the islands of Sicily and Sardinia, of almost all the States of the Iberian peninsula such as Castile, Leon, Navarre, Aragon and Portugal, of all the Scandinavian lands, of the Kingdom of Hungary, of the Slav State of Bohemia, of Servia, Bosnia, Bulgeria, and Poland.

5. In 1204 Pope Innocent III did authorize the attack, theft and murder of the inhabitants of Constantinople, many of whom were Christians. Up to 100,000 innocent women, men and children were slaughtered.

6. In 1204 Pope Innocent III did introduce for the first time, a law requiring Jews to wear distinctive clothing for easy identification. Furthermore, the Pope orders that Jews are to be forbidden from being sold food during Passion week in the hope of starving them. The Roman Catholic Church reintroduce the special clothing identification of Jews several times again before architecting the “Final Solution” during the Catholic Nazi System of the mid-twentieth century.

7. In 1206 Pope Innocent III established an unlawful enterprise for the purpose of crime: That Dominic, also known as St. Dominic did conspire with Pope Innocent III to reinvigorate the income stream from sale of icons by claiming to have seen an apparition of Mary with Rosary beads. Pope grants St. Dominic his own order and effective control of any wealth gathered through the Albigense crusades against the Cathars in France. To this day, this simple false enterprise of icon worship and use has generated over $3 Billion (2006 US equivalent currency) alone for the Roman Catholic Church.

8. Between (1208-38) Albigenses 1,000,000 Albigensians (Cathars) perish in south of France after Innocent III launches holy war described as one of history's most terrible campaigns.
Of crimes against humanity: (1208) St Nazair 12,000 are slaughtered at Cathedral of St Nazair.
Of crimes against humanity: (1208) Toulouse 10,000 are executed by Bishop Folque of Toulouse.
Of crimes against humanity: (1208-9) Beziers (France) 1000,000 Cathari are slaughtered by Catholic Church commanding legate Arnaud;
Of crimes against humanity: (1209) 7000 massacred in La Madeleine Church alone.
9. In 1210 Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) issues bull banning reading of Aristotle in Paris; another bull is issued in 1215.

10. In 1212 Pope Innocent III did devise a terrible and evil strategy by issuing a Papal Bull authorizing children to launch their own crusade against the Muslims. Over the over 200,000 children that are released by the parents, a third die from the journey, a third are taken by the Catholic Church for ritual satanic sacrifices and the remainder are sold to slave traders for tremendous profits. Because the Papal Bull absolves the Catholic Church from all liability, neither the parents, nor sovereign nations can say or do a thing upon this evil act.

11. In 1213 England/Ireland England and Ireland become papal fiefs.

12. In 1215 , the Lateran Council of the Catholic Church votes into church law (Canon Law) the penalty of death for all cases of heresy, so that church law now equates exactly to “civil law” created by Christian Emperor Justianian. Death for heresy remains the official position of the Roman Catholic Church even today.

And I should beleive in confession instituted by an evil Pope like that claiming to be Jesus Christ representative.
Hell no.
Confession was a tool to find out who was doing what and reported to the holy see.

As far as other things I do not beleive is the worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, which originated in the Council of Ephesus in 431.

Just like Aset in the Egyptian Pantheon was the mother of God.
Both are false ideologies in my eyes and i don't understand how people could kneel down and pray to stones idols
representing people who are not the God The Creator God Force.

Did Roman Catholicism borrow from Ancient Egyptian paganism?
There are so many similarities between the two religions. For example, the halos of Christian saints were said to have been copied from Ancient Egyptian sun disks on the heads of deities. Also, you have Isis & Horus & Madonna & Child. The Egyptians had patron gods for many things - the sun, sky, household, river, earth etc. Similarly, Catholics have patron saints for all sorts of items.

Check Parallels between Christianity
and ancient Pagan religions

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm#sim

Confession should not exist and all priest should report capital crimes