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Christians - why the disagreement?

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Postby DIss0n80r » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:57 pm

Have you been thoroughly checked for mental illnesses or any kind of brain disorder, in order to try ruling out mundane explanations? Or was that powerful transformative experience unquestionably of divine origin? Did you ever experience anything at all odd in the past. before that specific experience, anything out of the ordinary, even if it's something you disbelieve/dismiss now as having been unreal or unrelated to your transformative experience? Serious questions.
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby khanster » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:07 am

frrostedman wrote:
There isn't a single Christian alive today that has as his/her basis of faith, a rational decision to believe based on facts. it sounds like a bold statement but I know enough to know, and I stand by it.



We are saved by grace through faith, yes.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”


http://deeptruths.com/bible-basics/salvation.html

Believe on Jesus:

Jn.3:16 Whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life
Jn.11:25,26 I am the resurrection and the life...whosoever believeth in Me shall never die
Acts 16:31 Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved
Rom.10:9,10 If thou shalt...believe in thine heart...thou shalt be saved
1Jn.5:1a Whosoever believeth Jesus is the Christ is born of God

Receive Jesus:
Rev.3:20 If any man...open the door, I will come in to him
Jn.1:12 But as many as received Him...power to become sons
Gal.4:6 God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your heart
Eph.3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

But the Lord will chasten you for wrongdoing:

Psa.89:30-34 If they break My statutes...I will visit with the rod...(but) My lovingkindness will I not utterly take away
Heb.12:5-8 Whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth
Rev.3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten

Receiving Jesus guarantees eternal life in Heaven:

Rom.6:23b The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ
Jn.11:26 Whosoever...believeth in Me shall never die
Jn.14:2-3 In My Father's house are many mansions
1Pet.1:3,4 Incorruptible inheritance reserved in Heaven for you
1Jn.5:11 God hath given to us eternal life...in His Son
(See Rev.21:1-27 and 22:1-5 for a description of Heaven)



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Postby humphreys » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:22 am

frrostedman wrote:I've never told you what happened to me.


Hmm, I seem to remember you going into a little detail about your transformation on a thread here.

Am I misremembering, or were you speaking of something else?
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:49 pm

frrostedman wrote:
DIss0n80r wrote:Nothing new under the sun? :problem:

Quoting the bible? You're on your way, my friend.... 8-)


Believe it or not, I don't think the Bible is worthless. I haven't read it in its entirety in a long time (and doubt I would) but I enjoy browsing and re-reading parts again from time to time.

I enjoy it much as I enjoy any other sacred/mystical/religious text, such as the Tao, or Dhammapada, or the Quran. As well as some of the relatively more oddball esoterica out there. I have an interest in anything related to the mysterious/unknown/supernatural. Not that I'm an expert.
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby humphreys » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:39 am

I happen to enjoy a lot of killing and carnage in my fiction, so I for one recommend the Bible to other fans of the horror genre. The supervillian called God is a bit far-fetched at times, and it is rare in fiction that the villian succeeds and destroys the entire planet and everyone on it, but all in all a good read.

It has a great twist where this good guy called Jesus comes along, but it turns out he actually was the original supervillian God up to his old tricks in the persona of a caring human! :thumbup:
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:58 am

Dude, use SPOILER tags next time. :evil:
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby humphreys » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:08 am

Sorry! Forgive me :pray:
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby frrostedman » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:14 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:Have you been thoroughly checked for mental illnesses or any kind of brain disorder, in order to try ruling out mundane explanations?

That's too personal to talk about here. But suffice it to say I am very satisfied that the origin of this experience was from an outside source.

Or was that powerful transformative experience unquestionably of divine origin?

The experience itself could be viewed as an emotional one like humphreys suggested. But the events afterward made it crystal clear who the origin was, and its divine nature.

Did you ever experience anything at all odd in the past. before that specific experience, anything out of the ordinary, even if it's something you disbelieve/dismiss now as having been unreal or unrelated to your transformative experience? Serious questions.

Yes. Haven't you had strange experiences in the past?
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby frrostedman » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:16 pm

humphreys wrote:
frrostedman wrote:I've never told you what happened to me.


Hmm, I seem to remember you going into a little detail about your transformation on a thread here.

Am I misremembering, or were you speaking of something else?

I've spoken publicly about the mind-blowing, albeit very brief, crossing-over/transformative event that happened. The stuff that happened afterward which put any serious doubts I had to rest, I have not spoken about publicly.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby humphreys » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:04 am

Why haven't you spoken about them?

If you have what you consider proof of God existing, shouldn't you share it?
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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