capricorn wrote:But you are basing your judgement of waste (or usefulness) from an egocentric viewpoint. If the universe was indeed "programmed", did it take into account the perception on waste from only mankind's perspective? Most likely not since we are simply a result of this "program".
Biblically speaking, this was all created very much with us in mind, so when debating Christianity it is valid to take an egocentric view and see if it holds up. In my opinion, it doesn't. You may not be a Christian, so that argument may not sway you, but I know frrosted is, and this is his thread.
If we step away from Christianity, it does make more sense to argue against egocentric, subjective opinions of what "waste" and "usefulness" is, and you are right, perhaps all those planets serve a different purpose that is not clear to us, but then you'd have to admit that the "intelligent Universe" argument suffers from exactly the same problems - it's an equally subjective opinion on what a "Universe that appears intelligent", or a "Universe that shows signs of being designed" really is.
You see the dandelion and see design in its function, and I see the harsh reality of a survival of the fittest Universe where species are constantly going extinct in a cruel trial and error system, which to me is evidence of blind, indifferent randomness.
capricorn wrote:Who is to say that the void dark desolate planet light years away from earth serves no purpose? Who is to say that an extinct species served no part in greater steps towards more advanced progeny? Who is to say that the death, destruction and suffering of million of lifeforms in the past did not account for the privileges of future generations?
Who is to say there might not have been a better way of doing things? Me. I certainly think so. Less pain, less suffering, less waste, less pointlessness.
Again, these are subjective statements - my personal opinion - but this whole discussion is just that, from both sides.
As I said, by every definition of waste I can possibly imagine, as far as I can reasonably tell, the Universe shows far more hallmarks of randomness and lack of design, than it does design.
capricorn wrote:The universe always finds way to make use of itself which is a brilliant system and demonstrates that it is anything but wasteful.
To what end? What is the point of it? You cannot say whether it is wasteful or not if you do not know its purpose.
Like the Texas sized contraption of my previous post, if its function is to make ice-cream it is appallingly designed and wasteful, but if it is a creator of Universes it's pretty damn impressive, size-wise, at least.
If the Universe has a creator, it surely has a purpose for existing. In Christianity, we are part of that purpose, to what purpose does your creator make his Universes? If it is all for us, then of course it is wasteful overkill.
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."
- Sam Harris