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A Case for Intelligent Design

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Postby greeney2 » Thu May 31, 2012 3:59 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:There was no talking snake... Magic fruits don't exist... Women aren't ribs... Noah didn't build an ark for all the animals... On and on, the bible is full of things that cannot be taken seriously. Such absurdities reflect the minds of primitive men who understood very little compared to today.

There are many many other creation myths and legends out there, old stories that no critically thinking person would embrace as absolute truth. Why aren't you defending those?


If that isn't the words of a Atheism follower, I'll eat my hat. All the buzz words that are repeated by all the Atheists who claim to be superior in Critical thinking, yet in debates with believers, are unable to proove anything. Primative man also had those who were not believers, and not all religions teach all things in the Bible are literal, some teach parts are symbolic. Its our choice not to take either seriously, why should your choice be my choice, becasue you have no understanding of Faith?
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Postby at1with0 » Thu May 31, 2012 4:21 pm

How many assumptions are in that post...
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Postby DIss0n80r » Thu May 31, 2012 4:58 pm

at1with0 wrote:How many assumptions are in that post...


Yup, and irrelevant to anything I've posted last page. Just another kneejerk blizzard of words that completely ignore anything of substance, much like Tom's huge walls-of-raving-text.

I'm still waiting for people to discuss the excellent Ken Miller ID video I posted. And by discussion, I mean actually address legitimate points made.

Some of us value learning real facts about the real world, not just memorizing and regurgitating religious propaganda on cue.
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Postby DIss0n80r » Thu May 31, 2012 5:16 pm

But in all fairness, I can see how a non-christian theist might be mistakenly assumed to be an atheist. Christians seem to often enough operate in a frame of mind that assumes everyone else accepts their religion as the sole owner of the God concept, not to mention the implicit assumption of being the source of the morality concept.

So they tend to lump other views together, and then argue at their own versions of other people.

Here's a video for you to rant at, Greene:



Have fun!
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Postby at1with0 » Thu May 31, 2012 5:19 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:But in all fairness, I can see how a non-christian theist might be mistakenly assumed to be an atheist. Christians seem to often enough operate in a frame of mind that assumes everyone else accepts their religion as the sole owner of the God concept, not to mention the implicit assumption of being the source of the morality concept.

So they tend to lump other views together, and then argue at their own versions of other people.

Here's a video for you to rant at, Greene:



Have fun!


You mean there are things besides atheism and christianity?
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Postby DIss0n80r » Thu May 31, 2012 5:40 pm

No. :shh:
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Postby orangetom1999 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:49 am

at1with0 wrote:
orangetom1999 wrote:for telling them about God's displeasure with them.


A prime example of distorted views on God.

If I tell you I am a prophet and God is displeased with your actions, decisions, or beliefs, then I am trying to control you.


Does this mean at1with0...that the record shows that God was not pleased with His People..the Hebrews ...or that this from the Bible is not true??

I bring this up because the Qumran Scrolls...the Dead Sea Scrolls...through Archeology/Paleography/Science...show that the conditions of the Hebrews and particularly their leadership from the Olde through the New testament is exactly what is described in the Bible. Their whoredoms, their disobedience, their rule changing et al.

However ..to apply this kind of thinking today ..to a Prophet...would not work ..simply because to those who understand ..it is a finished work. A man today trying to use it in this manner would be known to be contrary to a finished work.



DIss0n80r,

All that stuff in the videos is interesting ..but do you have any thoughts of your own..outside of your emotional disturbances...being upset at an opposing view.

Treating the bible as if it were 100% literally true from cover-to-cover and then using that as the basis for morality (as well as for your understanding of the natural world) will corrupt your reasoning. It's clearly an edited anthology of perspectives and styles that aren't all relevant today,

The biblical creation myth is just flat out wrong. You cannot change fact. You can resort to distortions and circular arguments and ignore evidence, but that's irrational, pure and simple. You cannot have it both ways.

There was no talking snake... Magic fruits don't exist... Women aren't ribs... Noah didn't build an ark for all the animals... On and on, the bible is full of things that cannot be taken seriously. Such absurdities reflect the minds of primitive men who understood very little compared to today.

There are many many other creation myths and legends out there, old stories that no critically thinking person would embrace as absolute truth. Why aren't you defending those?



This is the best that you can do?? Peak performance?? Things which cannot be taken seriously???

Not relevant today?? Not a basis for morality??? Surely you jest DIss0n80r?? You cannot possibly be serious here???

Your basis is secular education ..is it not..being superior to anything else?? Being the preferred method...paid for and financed by a secular body politic??

Do you realize that our secular body politic has been financing itself on the basis of a phony fiat money debt structure for years and years now?? That this debt structure ...like Europe is headed for collapse?? Huge economic collapse with no one of Education..men of letters doing anything about it ..but letting it head for the cliff..Just like Europe is currently doing.

When we reach this cliff...who is going to finance public education?? From grade schools to college. Who is going to be able to afford it...a failed Government?? What is going to happen to public eduction?? Science??

Are you thinking this through long term..or just through your emotions??? Instant gratification/self justification and your insecurities??

The economic system of the Bible is based on a system of Just weights and measures...very much like Measuring spoons or cups in Moma's Kitchen. Our coinage in America after the Coinage Act of April 2 1792 is after a system of just weights and measures..in gold , silver, and copper. Just like Measuring spoons in Moma's kitchen, Just like in the Bible.

This is known by people who have gotten past a standard secular education of today.

Buy Intelligence...by logic and reason ...by wise men today..we now have a Susan B. Anthony dollar coin in circulation which is 2/3s the size of a half dollar yet claims to be twice as much...but only costs pennies to produce. You have to go to public school to get this dumb and no one catch on to it. This does not conform to the Coinage Act of April 2, 1792...still the law. It does not conform to Moma's measuring spoons or cups in her kitchen where real stuff was measured. Nor does it conform to the Bible's just weights and measures.

But it conforms to logic and reason of men..natural men.

To those who also know..it conforms to Legal....the form of law...the "appearance" of law.

Verses Lawful...the substance of law..what the law was intended to accomplish.

See Blacks Law Dictionary...legal and lawful


Not at all relevant today??? What is known by primitive people back in history ...is that whenever government can get cheap monies...they will do it..and put the burden on the backs of the people causing inflation. And inflation/depreciation is disguised taxation. (See Money in Colonial England...Federal Reserve Bank of New York) Work we do for which we get no goods or services..taxation...both when we get the monies and also when we spend it. We are getting taxed twice..once on our paychecks and by inflation when we spend it. Want to know why people out here are pissed?? They may not know all the details but they know something is wrong.
And public education financed by government will never teach this simple truth.
But the Bible will...if you are awake to it.

Not relevant. I think it is relevant DIss0n80r...very relevant.

Remember something about thinking..DIss0n80r...if the economy collapses ...what happens to education here in this country?? Not that it has been doing such a great job in good times..but what happens to it in an economic collapse??


Think about this seriously. I say this because already college costs under intellectual wise men running government and the economy is about to price huge segments of the public out of a college education. College tuition's are going through the roof here soon...if not currently so doing.

And the very best that you can do is evolution/science ?? You are missing alot of cards in your deck DIss0n80r. You are looking the wrong way with your science and your education.

Grow up DIss0n80r. Try defending that trend line currently happening in history today ..right now. You do not need to go way back in history using a time warp technique to know something is very wrong with wise men..men of letters...right now..today. Not back in Primitive men..but modern men.

Explain to the readers here the morality of deficit spending to what is coming in education which will not be affordable by both government and the people themselves through inflationary pricing of everyone outside of the educational marketplace.

I submit to you DIss0n80r that there is some very corrupt and not moral reasoning going on out here right now..by secular men..men of letters ..men of science...men of logic and reason.

I say this because government is currently filled with men of letters..science...reason..but they cannot seem to balance a budget. Want to help education in this country..your holy of holies...balance the budget. You don't need a rocket education to figure this out.

The more men of letters we get in government ..the worse it seems to get. You have something very wrong with your assumptions here DIss0n80r. And thinking people can see it for themselves. Be very careful what you think is primitive.
Because the history often reads that modern educated man is more immoral and corrupt than what education labels as primitive thinking man.

Your assumption, like many of today, is that because the Bible is not written as modern educated scientific paper..that it is irrelavent. And people who can think for themselves know this difference.

This does not mean we are against science or education..but we are against science and education as a new improved religion...standing on it's own morality.

History is showing that the more things seem to change..science..et al..the more things stay the same.
The Bible calls this..."there is no new thing under the sun"

Political Scientist R. J. Rummel is demonstrating this clearly with his Democide principle.

Thanks,
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Postby at1with0 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:06 am

orangetom1999 wrote:
at1with0 wrote:
orangetom1999 wrote:for telling them about God's displeasure with them.


A prime example of distorted views on God.

If I tell you I am a prophet and God is displeased with your actions, decisions, or beliefs, then I am trying to control you.


Does this mean at1with0...that the record shows that God was not pleased with His People..the Hebrews ...or that this from the Bible is not true??

I bring this up because the Qumran Scrolls...the Dead Sea Scrolls...through Archeology/Paleography/Science...show that the conditions of the Hebrews and particularly their leadership from the Olde through the New testament is exactly what is described in the Bible. Their whoredoms, their disobedience, their rule changing et al.

However ..to apply this kind of thinking today ..to a Prophet...would not work ..simply because to those who understand ..it is a finished work. A man today trying to use it in this manner would be known to be contrary to a finished work.



That may be but God's portrayal is distorted and corrupt and the law given in Leviticus is quite sinister.
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Postby greeney2 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:43 am

DIss0n80r wrote:Yup, and irrelevant to anything I've posted last page. Just another kneejerk blizzard of words that completely ignore anything of substance, much like Tom's huge walls-of-raving-text.

I'm still waiting for people to discuss the excellent Ken Miller ID video I posted. And by discussion, I mean actually address legitimate points made.

Some of us value learning real facts about the real world, not just memorizing and regurgitating religious propaganda on cue.


Who would know what you post that has substance, if all they have to do is sort though all your trolling, and clogging the board with more of your nonsence posts you have been repeatly warned for. Seems to be no end to your thinking the rules don't apply to you. Any more stupid videos for you to regurgitate?
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Postby orangetom1999 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:05 am

at1with0,

That may be but God's portrayal is distorted and corrupt and the law given in Leviticus is quite sinister.



You do indeed bring up an excellent point here at1with0. Excellent and my thanks to you for bringing it up. This is a teachable moment here.

I am indeed to know what the Law of Moses states. Indeed.

But with the advent of the Cross..I am under Grace...not under the Law. For we are told that the Law is our schoolmaster that we know what came before and why Grace happened.

Those who would attempt to hold us to the Law are, like many, declaring it is not a finished work.

Grace tells us that it is a Finished Work. Grace is one of the names, among many, for Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins.

I don't need to do works for salvation...or for any goal. I am under His authority of Grace..not under the Law of Moses....which is Bondage ..after the bondwoman and her son ....Ishmael.

Grace is under Issac...not under Ishmael.

The Word goes on to say and declare that those of Mt Sinai...under the Law of Moses given at Mt Sinai are in bondage with her children. This means the Hebrews today as well. Those under Olde Testament Law...ie...Leviticus.
(Galatians Chapter 4)

For we are all Priests unto the Most High God. No need for a Levitical Priesthood. No need for a sacrifice..it is finished, No need for a Holy Day, No need for a Holy Land, Our King is in Heaven ..not among men. No need for a Temple.
All these things too are finished.

Simple ..is it not??

You are correct about much of the Olde Testament...ie...Leviticus..which is why we are under Grace.

Thanks for your post,
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