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A Case for Intelligent Design: Part 2

Whether you believe in a higher power or not, this forum is dedicated to the topic of religion and spirituality. We live in a diverse world with different morals and ideas when it comes to our beliefs, so come in and share your thoughts.

Postby DIss0n80r » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:40 pm

Nah, TV has always been pretty crappy. :twisted:
"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby at1with0 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:56 pm

DIss0n80r wrote:Sorry, Hum, but you got it all wrong. Human misery is the result of original sin, because Adam and his rib were bad and ate the magic fruit. All that medicine and technology stuff is defying God's will. :naughty: Humans need to stop trying to understand objective reality and just trust the word of Allah-Zeus-Odin-Mithra-Crom-Ra-Yahweh-Cthulhu. :thumbup:

Besides, have you noticed that the snake is associated with medicine? Remember the snake in Genesis? See where this is going? Obviously science was intelligently designed by the Devil.

The only things that can save us now are genital mutilation, dunking each other underwater, babbling incoherently while holding handfuls of snakes, rejecting the false teachings of evolutionary and old-earth theories, telepathically asking a dead jew for forgiveness, and dressing all of our women like ninjas.

Otherwise we can't behave morally or be obedient slaves to a perfect being who created people just to satisfy his ego.



dude that was an awesome rant!!! :thumbup: :clap:
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Postby frrostedman » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:29 pm

humphreys wrote:
frrostedman wrote:
humphreys wrote:Greeney, the story from Kings, remember that? We discussed it quite recently. Well, that was a gang.

That tribal stuff that occurred at the beginning of civilization, they were gangs too. Gangs have always existed.

As far as the American gangs you are talking about specifically, they have been around at least 150 years.


This doesn't sound very supportive of your "look at all the progress we've made" argument.

Yes, we've made lots of progress as far as scientific discovery. The the nature of mankind has not change for the better or worse since the dawn of civilization. And even if it has, science has had nothing to do with it, that's for sure.


I only said we made a little progress where racism is concerned. There's a long way to go, but noticable progress has been made.

You're right, science is not responsible for that. I don't think making us more moral is the job of science at all. I would put morality squarely in the realm of philosophy. Science has made our lives easier, though, and the biggest gains have come in medicine.



Then we agree, I ... think?

(I'm usually wrong, as ... let's face it... I'm doing good just to tread water with you guys in any debate)

Science has helped us make incredible advances... advances which improve our quality of life.
But morally-speaking, science has been of no help and we are generally the same today as any other day.

Science gives us medicine to live longer, yet it gives us weapons to kill each other more efficiently, and gives us more efficient means to destroy forests and expose the race to viruses that until that time, laid dormant. Science has no bearing upon mankind's persistence in commiting acts of evil, other than it helps us commit evil more easily, and also helps us combat the effects of it through therapy and medicine.

Yes?

-----------------

*edit*

And in my next post, I will amaze the audience by saying the same thing 4 different ways! :thumbup:
Last edited by frrostedman on Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby at1with0 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:40 pm

Science has helped us commit acts of evil more efficiently, like genocide (if that's really evil, per se).
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Postby frrostedman » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:41 pm

at1with0 wrote:Science has helped us commit acts of evil more efficiently, like genocide (if that's really evil, per se).

Oh stop.
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein
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Postby at1with0 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:57 pm

frrostedman wrote:
at1with0 wrote:Science has helped us commit acts of evil more efficiently, like genocide (if that's really evil, per se).

Oh stop.


Sorry...Kinda obvious was I? :P
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Postby humphreys » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:51 am

frrostedman wrote:Then we agree, I ... think?

(I'm usually wrong, as ... let's face it... I'm doing good just to tread water with you guys in any debate)

Science has helped us make incredible advances... advances which improve our quality of life.
But morally-speaking, science has been of no help and we are generally the same today as any other day.

Science gives us medicine to live longer, yet it gives us weapons to kill each other more efficiently, and gives us more efficient means to destroy forests and expose the race to viruses that until that time, laid dormant. Science has no bearing upon mankind's persistence in commiting acts of evil, other than it helps us commit evil more easily, and also helps us combat the effects of it through therapy and medicine.

Yes?

-----------------

*edit*

And in my next post, I will amaze the audience by saying the same thing 4 different ways! :thumbup:


Exactly. Science is like a tool, you can use it in good ways or bad. Like a knife which can be used for life saving operations, or you can cut your parents up and eat them instead, etc
"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris
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Postby CodeBlackv2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:09 am

at1with0 wrote:Check out this article by Max Tegmark:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0905.1283.pdf

Just sayin....this is how parallel universes and the multiverse are actually done in practice by theoretical physicists.

I found the fly in the ointment with this. The existence of other universes is irrelevant. The reason is that the other universes have no effect on our universe, and have never had any effect. The initial conditions in this universe are not determined or even related to the initial conditions of another universe, since the theory claims they are random. They cannot effect us and we cannot effect them, so their existence is irrelevant.

And I have a whole bunch of questions about that paper. Max's explanation of a level I multiverse begins AFTER the big bang. But, the possibility of a multiverse is based on the idea that before the big bang you had this empty space with random quantum fluctuations, and somehow some set of those fluctuations created the initial conditions of our universe, and initial conditions of the others. The BB didn't create more than one universe as it too was based on a single set of initial conditions. But it seems that Max is saying that a Level I MV is just our universe so I'm confused what a Level I MV is. And why would the I.C.'s be the same for all universes?

I think the multiverse theory is nothing more than starting with the concept of "we don't know" and then creating a theory that makes it ok that we don't know. Normally, a scientific theory as developed in order to explain, as yet unexplained, behavior. But the multiverse theory seems to be going in the reverse direction, trying to find behavior to match the completely imagined theory.

I'm not saying that I know for a fact that there is no multiverse but we must have a sound basis for theorizing such a thing. At the very least this is a not fully formed theory. And if there is a multiverse, so what? How does it relate to I.D.?
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Postby DIss0n80r » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:36 am

at1with0 wrote:dude that was an awesome rant!!! :thumbup: :clap:

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort
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Postby CodeBlackv2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:38 am

Oh, oh, this is good. Let me get your head spinning with a quote from a religious scripture.
After the natural structure of the immortal beings had developed out of the infinite, a likeness then emanated from Pistis (Faith), it is called Sophia (Wisdom).

Immortal beings? Wow, that sounds dangerously close to universes. And Immortal Beings is capitalized elsewhere in the scripture, implying that it is a proper name. Pistis could be thought of as God. Crazy, blow your hair back kind of stuff, this scripture. Describes our universe quite nicely, says that we're missing a few particles, like the Higgs Boson. How much you want to bet that physicists have read this scripture? :o
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