The Black Vault

Where I agree with you is that parents teach children according to their beliefs or morality, what is right and wrong, and sometimes its just planting a seed and watching it grow. Sometimes it takes a whole bag of seeds to grow one stinking plant. The issue is what seeds to we plant, seeds that grow eatable fruit in life, or seeds that grow sticker weeds. If you want to get right down to it, you could probably call our school system and all education, brainwashing if you wanted to really stretch it. We teach a perception history was this way, good english and writing is that way, and not this way. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Aren't we all manipulated to some degree, no matter what we learn? Like OT stated, and we all know, the Boob Tube brainwashes all of us, and who hasn;t had some jingle stick in their head for a day, and what toothpaste do we buy because colgate spent $100M on TV adds. Cars, Cosmetics, products, all drilled into our heads with a seed planted associating this product with sex, pleasure, or sucess.

Cults usually isolate their flock, and usually do not allow social interaction with outside the flock. Johovah's witnesses do this, and they alienate their children from other kids in school, and outside of school. If you had seen the special, that was one thing I was struck by, was many of these kids felt alienated, and wished they could find friends other than religious kids. Intentional or not, these kids feel alienated. Even some religions not considered cults tend to do this alienating.

Its a tough call if you consider a Christian camp an equal effort of brainwashing, when this example of Atheists replacing words "God and Lord", with fantasy names, and a drilling the idea God is imaginary, than telling kids "you are free to decide for yourself", while they deal a stacked deck. If I think about it objectively, I could think the deck is equally stacked on the Christian side of planting their seeds. I think what tips the scales completly however to the Christian side not, is these are (ministers and clergy) people who have studied in depth to understand the Bible, and are Ordained in the Faiths they belong to. It is their lifes work, and they teach in order to understand and tie things togather completly out of the Bible. Which is differnt than teaching finding counterdictions, and not taking into account the entire scope of understanding. You may hate Catholics, but the most highly educated group of people in theology, are the Cardinals of the world in the Catholic religion.

I would say the true Christian camp has an honest approach based on the fact these are people who have passed down centuries of study and learning. It begs the question if I'm honest, how could so many centuries resulting in more than one religion from the same Bible? Thats a pretty big question. I am not so sure that the atheist camp is based on honest and true study of the Bible. Thats just my opinion.

at1with0

Yes it is a type of zombism. Roy Masters, a skilled hypnotist, remarked that most people are constantly hypnotized (zombie-like) and thus are highly suggestible.

Hmmmm...I've not heard of the name Roy Masters..but will have to look him up..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Masters_(commentator)


Suggestion...Hmmmm..again...

I am thinking that this is how alot of women/females work on their men to get them to run their plays to touchdown. And by suggestion get the guys to think the idea was his. Very effective on alot of men out here. Getting a man run for the touchdown....without really thinking about the nature of the play being carried out.

Is this also how alot of politicians work...subtlty...suggestion...privily?? Working the emotional insecurity to get to the goal??? In this view I often examine politicians for their feminine traits.


Agree Greeny2..it is what seeds we plant. Whether our offspring realize it or not. Whether they appreciate it or not. We try to plant seeds which will be beneficial to them in the long run..not just the short run...or instant gratification..but for the long run when we will no longer be able to pick them up and dust off their bottoms. By the way..Greeny2...I call this Love.

Cults usually isolate their flock, and usually do not allow social interaction with outside the flock. Johovah's witnesses do this, and they alienate their children from other kids in school, and outside of school. If you had seen the special, that was one thing I was struck by, was many of these kids felt alienated, and wished they could find friends other than religious kids. Intentional or not, these kids feel alienated. Even some religions not considered cults tend to do this alienating.

I've seen several women do this with their men...isolation...because they are afraid of competing ideas and also any thought/behavior competitions to their programs. Some men do it too but mostly I have seen women do it. I call it insecurity. And yes..it can be a devout religious dogma.

The emphasis of this world is social...instant gratification results ..through social contacts....in short ..emoting. Not thinking or doing per se. Accompanying this is entitlement beliefs...with someone else taking the Risks out of life for us.

You learn after awhile that this world is not always the product advertised. As a matter of fact..seldom it it the product advertised. Hence I do not put much stock in it.

Its a tough call if you consider a Christian camp an equal effort of brainwashing, when this example of Atheists replacing words "God and Lord", with fantasy names, and a drilling the idea God is imaginary, than telling kids "you are free to decide for yourself", while they deal a stacked deck.

Agree..a stacked deck is what I detect the world doing to us. Not allowing us to see or detect the other/reverse side of the coin so to speak...or look under the rug..behind the curtain.

I am not so sure that the atheist camp is based on honest and true study of the Bible. Thats just my opinion.

I tend towards agreement with this statement of yours just by the experience of dealing with so many Atheists on this board as well as others. Sometimes you realize how much emoting is going on with them..not thinking per se.

For we are to reason together..not emote together


I have to disagree with you on one thing you posted here Greeny2..this here.

You may hate Catholics, but the most highly educated group of people in theology, are the Cardinals of the world in the Catholic religion.

There is no doubt that the Catholic Schools have very high academic standards. If they did not ...I see no reason to have religious schools or even private schools if they cannot be more academic or maintain a higher standard than public schools.

But it is not a matter of education per se...it is a matter of Faith. Nothing wrong with education per se. But Faith is a very different thing. I know many people who are highly educated..but I would not trust them to feed my pets as I am fond of declaring. I would also not give many of them a wrench.

It should also read...the Cardinals in His service..not Cardinals in the world in the Catholic Religion.


Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

Every Facet, Every Department Of Your Mind,
Is To Be Programmed By You; And Unless
You Assume Your Rightful Responsibility,
And Begin To Program Your Own Mind,
The World Will Program It For You.

The Thoughts In Your Mind Are Knowledge;
You Are The One Responsible For Choosing
This Thought You Are Thinking.

The Conscious Mind Is Capable Of Thinking
Only One Conscious Thought At A Time.
The Thoughts You Are Thinking Impregnate
The Subconscious Mind, And Then
The Subconscious Mind Will Set About Creating
Your World By The Nature Of The Thoughts
You Have Allowed To Enter.

Think Positive, Happy Thoughts And You Will Feel
Positive And Happy. Think Angry Or Hostile Thoughts
And You Will Immediately Feel Angry And Hostile.
Right Here and Right Now I want You To Begin
By Closing Your Eyes And Focusing On A Situation
Or A Recent Experience Where You Felt Anger
Or Hostility Towards Someone Perhaps Even
Yourself.

qmark wrote:I have my own church horror stories.

However, a question came to mind.

inja wrote: But to me Christianity is part of my western culture and so I have found it to be important for her to know the stories and the understanding of what it means to be a Christian.

Can a non Christian help someone understand what it means to be a Christian?

Sometimes you have to first learn the mastery of deception before anything Q.
And during that time we only learn to be a master at deceiving ourselves.
I see what you have been hoping to help with, but she's not offering it up.

I was having a conversation with someone tonight, they said ....hey so whats this about some judgement day coming because if you look around that day passed soo long ago.
People have condemned themselves, and now more than ever love is what is feared. We've got one prognosis. To love and be loved. And if you cannot love everyone than you cannot love anyone. Any supposed times of future judgement is not much other than God, whom is Love, trying to make a break into this place (doesn't mean it won't look and sometimes feel ugly).

And to answer your question as adequately as it could ever be answered - can a non christian help someone understand what it means to be a christian?

Can a Christian co-create with what we call a non-christian? Absolutely. And a Christian who is a co-creator learns from their creations.

On the topic of this atheist camp - I don't imagine humphreys ever sending his children to some atheist camp and if humphreys wouldn't do it then yeah somethings really off. lol

One always has to guard against self-deception and societal-deception yes.

It is hard for some to give up on love, and easy for others to. Either way, the process of giving up on love is usually hard to reverse. Hard to reverse especially when one takes risks in the name of love and it feels as though those risks led to loss.

We plant the seed in our children with the best of hopes and intentions. That they will take the best of us and expand and grow, hopefully surpassing us in their understanding and leaving behind the bad. In order to do this though, they have to evolve with the new challenges they face. Things like social norms change like the Fall television line-up.

We've all done it, we've all adapted to the times. The times being those of our generation. There are, however, certain things we've clung to. Things passed on from our parents and the family members we grew up with. We don't usually recognize it until we get out on our own though and start our own family. Before that time we are usually rebellious and arrogant, thinking all along our morals and principles were ours alone.

The flip side of this coin though is that we often get caught up in, and take old stances in, the same old debates. This isn't always the case with everyone but sometimes we have to override that initial welling up from within, that seeded response, before responding with our evolved stance on the subject.

En-Lugal

Things like social norms change like the Fall television line-up.

LOL LOL LOL. Funny and yet appropriate you should phrase it in that manner...the fall television line-up.

It is just that I find this line of thought or phrasing..to be appropriate to the topic line in a nation where so many people have television and movie thoughts, television and movie emotions, television and movie values. Little original thinking going on. These mediums do most of their thinking for them.

Yes ..we can do our jobs and function in that capacity ..but do we really know much or have much experience outside of second hand television and movies??

No original thinking going on. And so many of these people are now voters. It is a scary thought.

It is brainwashing to me and I believe so few people realize it.

So what in reality is a social norm...is that too...a second hand substitution as well?? Someone else's norm...substituted for our's without us even knowing it??

Orangetom

orangetom1999 wrote:En-Lugal

Things like social norms change like the Fall television line-up.

LOL LOL LOL. Funny and yet appropriate you should phrase it in that manner...the fall television line-up.

It is just that I find this line of thought or phrasing..to be appropriate to the topic line in a nation where so many people have television and movie thoughts, television and movie emotions, television and movie values. Little original thinking going on. These mediums do most of their thinking for them.

Yes ..we can do our jobs and function in that capacity ..but do we really know much or have much experience outside of second hand television and movies??

No original thinking going on. And so many of these people are now voters. It is a scary thought.

It is brainwashing to me and I believe so few people realize it.

So what in reality is a social norm...is that too...a second hand substitution as well?? Someone else's norm...substituted for our's without us even knowing it??

Orangetom

The telegraph, radio, (Theater's to some extent)television and finally the internet. What do these things have in common? All are and were invaluable tools for social engineering. Each has sped our civilization along in a direction controlled by they who control the programming. However one of these tools is not completely controlled, although the legislation has been attempted many times in recent years.

While the internet is saturated with social engineering, it is far more powerful in that we ultimately control what we see and hear. It gives us the ability to have discussions such as this and share information, photos and video. These freedoms are dangerous which is why we see the legislation attempts to supposedly weed out the bad yet restricting this powerful tool for all.

Yes, my opinion on social norms are the equivalent of saying "everybody else is doing it, so...". In my opinion it usually goes against our own norm or moral compass but we dismiss it as a way to make ourselves feel better to gain acceptance. I can accept that people make complete asses of themselves on reality television but I don't approve of that behavior or reward it by being a watcher and following their tweets/facebook.

It's particularly damaging to kids and teens who see these celebrities, the same celebrities responsible for these social norms, to believe this behavior is acceptable or normal. i agree it is brainwashing, social engineering, as it's on radio, television, billboards, the internet and even clothing.

Social norms, basically social engineering, are grand experiments to see how large a portion of the populace are gullible enough to go along with whatever some or many celebrities say. Tabloids/news, advertising agencies and other social media outlets are just as responsible. How else are you going to convince someone that's poor, those $300 sneakers will make their miserable life better than the $20 pair.

Have you bought a $20 pair lately? Another main ingrediant to all this is good old fashioned peer pressure. The basics of peer pressure isn't much differnt, but the modern toys of today sure lend into it. All this texting and twitter, its like you can not even eat a hamburger without tweeting every bite taken. I just dipped my french fries in catchup, like it was a international event. Cell phones with apps will be the death of us, people now talk to their phones like they are people. Where are our priorities? Seems like all we do is dummy down further, and live with a gossup mentaility of texting every inch of our lives, and everyone else. Texting pictures and rumors, ruining lives while texting in a classroom.

As far as the internet, it has become a haven for everything to be distorted, fabrication, alterered, photoshopped, and so infected with lies and untruths about real issues. It has no controls , no verification, it is totally unrealiable. Just look at all the boloney that passes through this message board alone. Lets not even get into email, hacking, spamming, scams, and just rudeness you would never say face to face .