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Questions that make you think...

my answer

In this forum, questions are asked which are really tough to answer. Some philosophical, some regarding morality and many others. Have fun, and post your own personal tough questions!

Postby chiselray » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:54 am

bionic wrote:where ever you are is where you're at
8-)

seriously though..

At1
first of all, I feel compelled to say something to you that was said to me once, long ago, by my now dead, mom-in-law..on a day I was postering..probably about the meaning fo life..or something like it...per usual
she said something like..
"have you considered you think too much? that maybe you read too many books? That you need to settle down and just live your life a bit?"

her inference being that I used these deeper questions to sort of, run from life, to distract me from actually living my life

(so caught up in theory..ignpring the importance of lab)

anyhoo..
I am a stargate fan and know the episode you speak of and can honestly picture you to be a-lot like that scientist guy on the show..surrounded by half worked out equations..I have a brother like that..he liked to do calculus for fun when we were kids. You and he would get along well,I think.

About that yearning for completeness.(whatever that is) I think it's part of our basic programming..it's what keeps the energy in motion..the constant reaching..it's a basic part of being human. It's what pushes our evolution along.

there's name for it..it's actually instinctual..it's what makes a person Google all day.

I can't remember what it's called, though. (there was an article about it online a few years back..about how some online marketers were taking advantage of it...people's need to...search..and search...and search..creating their own mental labarynths)

I think, in your case, though, it's stuck on high gear...and maybe getting in the way of your life

which gets me to the beginning of this post and the words my mom-in-law had for me
years ago
anyway..
I relate


that is true of lots of people....It's cool you bought it up..
All truth seekers have a commonality ,rarely does 1 answer be enough,like any gambler is never happy with a single bet every other day...And i mean no offense to anyone by saying that...Because i am guilty of it and have been for much of my life...
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Postby at1with0 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:32 am

Good point.

If there is a "my answer," I would expect it to be pretty lengthy and complicated. The "my answer" would basically be a conjunction of all answers to all questions.

But can this even be done in human terms? Wouldn't there be infinitely many questions (e.g., what is 1+1, what is 1+2, what is 1+3)? That would mean that "my answer" is infinite in length. So then the question becomes can this infinite answer can be abridged into a finite, yet equivalent, document? And finally, can we find a particular document with all the answers and be able to prove that is the most succinct those answers could possibly be? (IOW, can we find the shortest document that contain all answers to all questions?)

Well the subject of questions and answers related to all this is given here:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0708.1362

That which answers questions is called an inference device. It appears that there might be some interesting results concerning strong inference devices. It would vastly simplify things if something is considered an answer only if that answer has a finite proof. Then the question would become "how many finite proofs are there?" My intuition tells me that there are infinitely many different finitely long proofs.

That leads me to the conclusion that "my answer" is not expressible in a finite document.

However, if there are finitely many "categories of proofs" then the document would just be a summary of the categories of proofs which would make the "my answer" document finite. Two proofs are in the same category if their conclusions are equivalent and not in the same category if their conclusions are not equivalent, meaning that they are not merely restatements of one another.

Thus, there are finitely many categories of proof if and only if "my answer" is a finite document.
There being finitely many categories of proof implies that "my answer" is a finite document.
There being infinitely many categories implies that "my answer" is an infinite document.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby chiselray » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:53 am

the answer to all questions is most probably available to the most intelligent being ..

Who doesn't exist.

maybe you'd need an IQ of 10,000 plus to compute all possibles and conclusions instantly or simply be a super being.

Thats teh key,the math of such a thing must be instantly calculated to have the whole essence of the all answer..All variables thrown in together,you could imagine it as if this being was the hand of information,and as though if he knew so much he would be nothing more than alone..what if he threw the last ingredient into the bowl of knowledge ,his own seed for mankind,he created his very own achilles heel and it went BANg ,like a big bang...the explosion creates the questions

Why create your own achillies heel ? Because as it manifests,it's energy transforms ,it becomes not one but all...

fairy tale anyone?
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Postby at1with0 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:29 am

What I'm wondering is what shape a TOE would have. If it can be proved that it cannot be finite in length, then there isn't much point in trying to find it.
But in doing this I assume that a TOE must be something that answers all questions. Another appealing description of what a TOE is is that it is a complete description of reality.
I think it's clear that the document containing a TOE could easily be infinite. So the problem is determining whether or not an infinitely long statement of a TOE has enough redundancies so as to make a finitely long but equivalent version of that infinite document to arrive at a finitely long statement that is a TOE.

My guess? There is not only one being with knowledge of a TOE. Not only the ones with an Achilles heel. But this is just my personal bias.

If the set of answers which are provable is infinite, then the set of all answers is likewise infinite.
If the set of answers which are provable has enough redundancy to reduce it to a description of the categories of answers and that list of categories is finite, then that doesn't imply that the set of all answers is likewise fashionable into a finite form.

Can we say that we understand addition? We don't have an infinite amount of experience dealing with addition but we could theoretically add any two numbers, given unlimited time and resources. We haven't already worked out what all sums there are between two arbitrarily selected numbers but, in principle, we could work it out with any two numbers chosen. My point is that can someone say they understand a TOE if they could, in principle, give the answer to any question, given unlimited time and resources? Or would someone have to squeeze all answers into one consciousness in order to say they understand a TOE (in a way similar to how one of us can claim to understand addition without having added all numbers previously)?

I guess I should stop beating around the bush and say that one goal would be to find an algorithm that will answer any question if carried out with enough time and resources. An algorithm will sum any two numbers and we can say we understand addition because we know the algorithm, even though we haven't made a document that contains the sum of every pair of numbers.

Is there an algorithm that will give the answer to any question? Of course that sounds like science fiction. But I would rather be on the fringe than anywhere else. I doubt I will ever know such an algorithm but I think that making arguments about the algorithm is quite real and possible. Is this algorithm a fairy tale? Maybe inasmuch as Calculus is a fairy tale to an amoeba. Perhaps we should reconsider what we think is possible and impossible.
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Postby chiselray » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:52 am

I AGRee that one thing could answer all questions..But i think it's important to remember that infintity just happened..And it happened finitely amounts during me typing this...regular time is what my brain is most comfortable with,it's aware of unlimited times or bandwidth of time it knows it is possible but this model of human (us) is more interested sometimes in things it can't possibly experience .

What I'm wondering is what shape a TOE would have. If it can be proved that it cannot be finite in length, then there isn't much point in trying to find it.


the same question has plagued me for most of my life...and more importantly the most obvious of questions may be if one was looking that way inclined would be why call it a Toe..
No one really asks these questions but i assure you it is very paramount the unlocking more questions ..
let me show you ...the tone of a word is it's vibration...the Tone of TOE is a relaxing hum,it vibrates a calming presence ..on the other hand,the word HAND is different..
A TOE is down there so we equivalence the tone to TOEEEE..a HAND is twice as much a more a useful part of the anatomy so obviously it was felt by the senses at higher in energy fluctuation so then the tone was lifted to hand..Then the head is said as HEAD obviously because it's at the head of the business end..

TOE
HAND
HEAD

So i'm wondering why the Toe was not called a HOE now...
you don't have to answer that at1 :ugeek: well if you have an answer i'm all EARS..there's another fascinating word..An ear is flexible like the pliability of the worD ear..astounding but true.
eeerrrrreeeeerrrr see that backforward action of the word..?


I guess I should stop beating around the bush and say that one goal would be to find an algorithm that will answer any question if carried out with enough time and resources. An algorithm will sum any two numbers and we can say we understand addition because we know the algorithm, even though we haven't made a document that contains the sum of every pair of numbers


i did some checking and had no answer because i have limitations...but i think the amount of processing we would need for a computer would be about 1Geopbyte powerfactor to solve it..
There is always though the doubt and more theories that come into play,Just ask someone if the sky is actually blue and the correct answer is yes and no...
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Postby at1with0 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:01 am

chiselray wrote:I AGRee that one thing could answer all questions..But i think it's important to remember that infintity just happened..And it happened finitely amounts during me typing this...regular time is what my brain is most comfortable with,it's aware of unlimited times or bandwidth of time it knows it is possible but this model of human (us) is more interested sometimes in things it can't possibly experience .


You mean like infinitely many moments pass every second?

Really though...who is to say what is possible to experience? Maybe a million years down the line.. Maybe a million moments down the line.



the same question has plagued me for most of my life...and more importantly the most obvious of questions may be if one was looking that way inclined would be why call it a Toe..
No one really asks these questions but i assure you it is very paramount the unlocking more questions ..


Unlocking of more questions.. I like that.

Maybe.. The set of all utterances is a TOE. The set of all statements is a TOE since no answer is not a statement. ie, every statement is the answer to some question. Thus the set of all statements is a TOE and a larger set, the set of all utterances (including nonsense), is also a TOE.

But I ignore questions whose answers are not statements. The ineffable.


i did some checking and had no answer because i have limitations...but i think the amount of processing we would need for a computer would be about 1Geopbyte powerfactor to solve it..
There is always though the doubt and more theories that come into play,Just ask someone if the sky is actually blue and the correct answer is yes and no...


That's OK, I think the human brain is about 4.57 Geobyte powerfactor so it could easily solve it if it were to unlock the other 90% of the brain, as it stands now the human brain is about 0.46 geobytes so right now it's not solvable.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby bionic » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:16 pm

Pi comes to mind..it just goes on, and on , and on...

Maybe that's how 'THE answer/s' works?
Don't 'wise ones' often say "God" is ever expanding?

This is the song that doesn't end..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_lmZgIp ... re=related

though, I gotta add, "42" comes to mind
:lol:
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby at1with0 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:22 pm

Not far from the truth :)
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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Postby bionic » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:08 pm

I was just thinking...
Iis it deliberate or just coincidence that 'pie' (as in 'have a slice of') relates to 'Pi'? (William Haenry would have a ball with this..'a BALL'..hah, ha)
hmmm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2ayWcJfxo
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
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Postby at1with0 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:16 pm

In the book Contact (movie was based on), at the end, they decided to run their SETI algorithms on Pi. The Seti algorithms are what tries to sense order/intelligence in background radio captured by radio telescopes.

They discovered that in base 11 (base 10 is usual), if you plot some of the digits in base 11 version of Pi, a circle appears.

This video is relevant too (repost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFPa7nsy0Xc

I've been LF something related to an underlying pattern in reality.
"it is easy to grow crazy"
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