The Black Vault

Tichan,

I too must shove off for some intra state commerce...my gas stove has gone on the fritz. Be back later.

Orangetom

Tichan,

I spent the rest of yesterday removing my olde gas range and installing a new one so not much time to do more elaborating on your post.

I wanted to comment more on this statement of yours from earlier yesterday.

I beleive that the Vatican is the extension of the Romain empire and controls the world and influence world wide leaders. Nothing is done without more or less the approval of the holy see.

I believe this as well. I believe the Roman Empire realized that Christianity was a very large threat to them. What they did was turn the State into a pseudo Christian church but kept the olde pagan rituals to cloud the system. In this manner they could continue on with the same quest for "Absolute Power " and control as did the Caesars of Rome.

The same power of the Pharaohs and other pagans going back into history. Absolute Power.

Little changed under the RCC. Little progress in any nation.

The economies under Rome are the same as the economies under the Communists. A few had a little the rest had almost nothing. Little progress is recorded until after the break away from Rome under Martin Luther. It was some 200 years after Martin Luther broke away that people began to notice a difference in the standard of living amongst the ordinary peoples and the RCC areas of the world.

This disparity and fingerprint of economies can be seen today in many nations and is a tell tale of the type of fingerprint working behind the scenes in any given economy.

If economic breakdown is occurring it is because the nation is working to return to these olde systems of paganism. The economics must needs follow suit...the economic fruit of absolute power will be seen ..it is unavoidable.

A peoples religion is almost the sole determiner of what kind of economy and progress will take place. This because a peoples religious beliefs is the only thing which will hold a government in check. The wrong religion and government will be unchecked and unchained. The right religion and government will be limited and in chains.

Most governments will begin or start out limited..but over time ...the crooks and money lenders will move in and alter the government to suit them and work against the interests of the peoples and nations. Rome did so in her early days but became more and more corrupt as time went by until they were under a deficit and spending the future of the people and nation. Exactly what is going on in most nations today.

I also think that Rome and the Crown have been in conflict from time to time but will jump into bed with each other ..and not let the rest of the world know they are doing this.
I think they are in bed today and once again.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orange Tom

No I Have not heard of a man named Stuart Crane?? Ben Mott? Conrad Jarrell??

However..America is not the only nation which has ceded her sovereignty to this group..the Crown.
Right you are.
Yes I believe China has done so too...for a piece of the pie so to speak like you say .
Yes like you say mst likely those nations who are on phony fiat money systems in allegiance to the Bank of England or one of her subsidiaries are in on it as bit partners.

And I beleive that they are the ones building China to be the next big empire.

Yes as you say ........We go to war over and over and over for this group. Sometimes alone and sometimes in coalitions.

Yours..........The Victors are supposed to get the spoils..but we bring home few spoils and lots of body bags and medals to keep us quiet. Only Americans can be this naturally stupid and survive. Most nations would have gone under years ago on this kind of stupidity.........
many nations have suffered because of the Crown and because of royalty

Nonetheless the Crown gets the Lions share and others pick up the tab.

I would add the crumbs off the table.



Tom Orange wrote:
...........Rome has been in competition with other lodges since the days of the Spanish and before. They have tried to kill off their competition but this face is changing now as these once competing members come together to finish their Eastern/Luciferian Occult Template..........
Ok but what is the Eastern/Luciferian Occult Template

Yes the Vatican still have much competition on the world stage.

Yes as you say t......hat England and Rome , once enemies, have quietly joined.

Orangetom: Both appear to be encouraging and supporting Islam in the background..while publicly appearing to be against it. America too has followed suit in the world Ishmaelite position and dutifully followed England's lead with Rome and Ishmael/Islam

I thing a bit different. I think that both Rome and England pretend to love Islam and will turn and cause a world religious war christian Jews and Islam against each other to force the world into a One world religion for peace..
The Crown, Rome (Vatican ) the military corporation system military machine and the elite are staging this.

Orangetom wrote:
The religion changed on the surface because of new world empires and their religions but underneath ..all the precepts and indexes were still there.

Yes but it ain't Islam because Islam .

Most religious historians view Islam as having been founded in 622 CE by Muhammad the Prophet (peace be upon him).* He lived from about 570 to 632 CE). The religion started in Mecca, when the angel Jibril (a.k.a. Jibreel; Gabriel in English) read the first revelation to Muhammad

So you must agree then that we are talking about the old Sumerian Babylon religion. Because Islam is a more recent religion.



You say orange tom ........ I am often want to state that many Christians know so little about history or even Christian History and their ministers often want to keep them this way. But not all of them...... right you are



Yes.........The inner workings of the Crown are heavily Talmudic...Masonic. Masons are Talmudic.

Your words................The Hebrews of today are also heavily Talmudic meaning they too are Masonic. They are just in conflict with other Masonic Groups..including Islamic Masons. They are all Ishmaelites.

I always found it funny about Islamic Masons but they do exist.
However there must be the top of the top of leader or mason group. All those masonic groups are under whose thumb and please don't give me Satan for now.
You have Christian ,protestant and catholic masons, Jewish masons, Islamic masons, the Queen and the crown masons and elite ande all kinds of other masons groups world world wide.

Who rules them all

orange tom wrote :

On the surface they appear to play to Christians but underneath ..they are Talmudic...from Babylon and before ..to Egypt...and before. For now they must keep this hidden but they are rapidly attempting to come out with this ancient religion and call it a new thing...a New Age.

They cannot be talmudic. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah written 200 CE, the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara . 500 CE. Babylon and Egypt existed way before.
I agree that they appear to be Christians but they do follow principles of the Egyptian and ancient Sumerian Babylonian religions



The goal of public education is to give young peoples only enough education and knowledge to function in this world system but never to be able to think outside the emotional instant gratification blocks they are fed like robots/sheep. To never know the difference or that there even exists a difference.
This is why so many are fed Amusements..

You are absolutely right.


It is my belief that Ronald Reagan was actually dumb enough to think he was a real President and went against the Crown and her control. Reagan needed to be brought back in line...and was. So too with John Kennedy. He went against the wishes and needs of the Crown..particularly against fiat phony money issuance....which is also one of Gaddafi's sins. The threat of issuing ones own gold monies..a big no no to these peoples.

Yup and also because he was against Israel having nuclear arms and going against the the Federal Reserve which is a private banking system.

It never ends and its in full force

Orangetom

I think that there was a lot of fighting between the different Christian groups and Constantine wanted to bring unity and peace in the empire within the christian groups.
That is why he summoned all the Christian bishops and told them to come up with an official christian religion.
Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the relationship of Jesus to God the Father; the construction of the first part of the Nicene Creed; settling the calculation of the date of Easter; and promulgation of early canon law.

Constantine wanted a unified church after the council for political reasons, he did not force the Homoousian view of Christ's nature on the council.
Meaning that the Homoiousians proposed that God and the Son were alike, but not the same, in substance.

The Council declared that the Father and the Son are of the same substance and are co-eternal, basing the declaration in the claim that this was a formulation of traditional Christian belief handed down from the Apostles. Under Constantin's influence, this belief was expressed by the bishops in what would be known thereafter as the Nicene Creed.
This christian new religion was not the religion of the state but one of the religion permitted in the empire.

Later emperor Theodosius I issued decrees that effectively made Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire.

He is recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Church as Saint Theodosius. He defeated the usurpers Magnus Maximus and Eugenius and fostered the destruction of some prominent pagan temples: the Serapeum in Alexandria, the Temple of Apollo in Delphi, and the Vestal Virgins in Rome.
After his death, Theodosius' sons inherited the East and West halves respectively, and the Roman Empire was never again re-united.

Orangetom wrote:

What they did was turn the State into a pseudo Christian church but kept the olde pagan rituals to cloud the system. In this manner they could continue on with the same quest for "Absolute Power " and control as did the Caesars of Rome.
The same power of the Pharaohs and other pagans going back into history. Absolute Power.
Little changed under the RCC. Little progress in any nation.

Your words are very true.
In fact Christianity is probably the most Syncretistic, meaning the attempt to reconcile contrary beliefs, often while melding practices of various schools of thought.
Although having its roots in Judaism, Christianity quickly came to absorb elements of Zoroastrianism (the ancient dualistic religion of Iran), some important features of pharaonic Egyptian religion, the religions of ancient Mesopotamia, and a number of Greco-Roman cults.

Precursors to the same beleif of the importance of the resurrection of Jesus for Christianity were the resurrected Egyptian god Osiris, as well as the Mesopotamian deity Dummuzi, who was rescued from the land of the dead by his divine lover Inanna.

The Egyptian cult of the goddess Isis, sister-wife of Osiris and mother of the god Horus, who, together with Astarte and other Near Eastern goddesses, influenced the rise of the medieval cult of the Virgin Mary.

The Isis cult also affected Christian ritual. The sistrum, a tinkling rattle that was shaken during ceremonies honoring the goddess, is the source of the bell that is rung several points in a Roman Catholic mass.

Several Greco-Roman religious cults also impacted the new religion. For example, the dove, a widespread symbol of the goddess Aphrodite and her Roman counterpart, Venus, became a symbol of the Holy Ghost, and the god Apollo was sometimes equated with Christ.


Yours words....................
A peoples religion is almost the sole determiner of what kind of economy and progress will take place. This because a peoples religious beliefs is the only thing which will hold a government in check. The wrong religion and government will be unchecked and unchained. The right religion and government will be limited and in chains.......
The question is what is the right religion

Yours words.................
I also think that Rome and the Crown have been in conflict from time to time but will jump into bed with each other ..and not let the rest of the world know they are doing this.
I think they are in bed today and once again.


Definitely so and leading the ball

Tichan,

However..America is not the only nation which has ceded her sovereignty to this group..the Crown.
Right you are.
Yes I believe China has done so too...for a piece of the pie so to speak like you say .
Yes like you say most likely those nations who are on phony fiat money systems in allegiance to the Bank of England or one of her subsidiaries are in on it as bit partners.

Agree that China has done so too..sold the very souls of her peoples to this demonic template. I believe this was done by these peoples in the various four or five Opium Conflicts up to the Boxer Rebellion...in WW1 and then WW2 and then Korea, Vietnam and now the Middle East.

What little I have been able to determine, and only in tell tale signs, is that these peoples..these groups are loyal to no country..they are loyal to their investments....to their power structure. In this they are very demonic. And Demonic is the essence of the pagan religions. They will sacrifice anyone and anything to achieve their goals...even themselves at times and they have done so.

It is interesting to me that after all the wars...the generals seem to move in and set up shop...

General Motors
General Foods
General Dynamics...

and all the other generals of commerce.

The conflict seems to be not only in resources..but in labor as a resource...peoples with the best disciplines..the best knowledge but mostly within these limits the best ability to work as an ant farm or more paganistically speaking to work as an industrious "BEE HIVE."

America England and Europe no longer fit this template as our costs have risen to high. So too with Japan and Korea. The new ant farm/Bee Hive is in China followed closely by India.
The trick appears to be one of controlling the resources, the sea lanes for shipment of resources and finished goods, and then the manufacturing areas. Only certain areas are suitable for certain manufacturing ...labor is the key ingredient ...a specific type of Bee Hive peoples. Germany and Japan fit this template until their costs rose to high. So too in a limited manner...Korea.
Vietnam was only invested in to keep the oil developed and then off the market..not on the market. So too it will be with Mid East Oil. Off the market and out of hands of competitors. The mid east will be someones private stock. A private investment done at taxpayers expense in blood and monies. This is a definition of demonic.

I believe India is being invested in to keep China in check. In case China turns on her handlers as did Japan. Japan was the Crowns investment arena to protect their investments in Asia...the local Police force for their investments. This is how and why Japan got military might. A blue water international Navy at a time when most nations could barely afford a Brown water Navy ..local Navy or coastal navy. Japan was taught to build submarines, air craft carriers, airplanes at time when most countries could hardly afford them.

But Japan realized that the Crown was keeping the Lions Share and plotted to turn on their handlers and they did...taking the nations in Asia where there were to be found resources to keep Japans machine running. 'Asia for the Asiatics' was the doctrine as E. C. Knuth was to declare in his book. This was one Masonic group turning on another Masonic Group for control of the resources to maintain their demonic empire. They just happened to join up with other Masonic Groups (Nazis, Germans and Fascist, Italians) to fight against the Masonic Group called the Crown.

This demonic struggle continues today .."for the absolute mastery of everything" as they will declare themselves in certain of their writings.

They have no loyalty to any country, borders, or peoples.....but only to their group, power , and their investments.

Nonetheless the Crown gets the Lions share and others pick up the tab.

I would add the crumbs off the table.

Indeed sir..Indeed!!

However..I am picking up small and scattered tell tales that the Crown... in demonic fashion ....with new computer micro management techniques.. is desirous of even keeping the crumbs off the table....thus following the dogma of "the absolute Mastery of everything."

This "absolute mastery of everything" concept came to me in a study of paper monies..phony fiat monies and the switch to computer generated accounts or monies.
I did not at first catch on to what it implied.

I thing a bit different. I think that both Rome and England pretend to love Islam and will turn and cause a world religious war christian Jews and Islam against each other to force the world into a One world religion for peace..
The Crown, Rome (Vatican ) the military corporation system military machine and the elite are staging this.

Yes, I too think that Islam is being used/misused by someone in this group to keep Western nations and peoples in check and in fear. Islam is replacing the Communist as a fear and control tactic.

Communism appears to be something that the Crown approved as a Hegelian Dialectic for control purposes. They needed to support Communism even after Communism almost failed several times. Communism was invigorated or supported by economic influxes of aid from the west..both in direct help and technology or it would have gone under long before the Wall or Iron curtain fell. This is a carefully hidden history from most of us here in the West.

"National Suicide. Military Aid to the Soviet Union"

"Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution"

"Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler"

"Wall Street and the rise of FDR"

Both by Anthony Sutton.

FDR was their boy...carefully selected as was his uncle Teddy Roosevelt.

FDR was also very pro socialist and pro Communist.

Massive aid was shipped to the Communists during WW2 along with huge lots of technology both by sea and by air shipments across America, Canada and Alaska into Siberia...including nuclear technology and materials at a time when we only had limited amounts of this knowledge and materials ourselves. The Soviets got everything we had and still could not produce a bomb until 1949.
There were no Soviet Espionage efforts. The Soviets were given most everything they needed through the White House and a man named to help them..Harry Hopkins who worked for FDR.

"From Major Jordans Diarys"

George Racey Jordan.

Major Jordan commanded the air base in Great Falls, Montana. Great Falls, Montana was where the American side of the air corridor to the Soviet Union began. The Russians and their Liaisons were there to help the materials get to the Soviet Union. Major Jordan details the list of materials which were shipped to Russia..including printing presses and the special paper to print American Monies along with Nuclear Materials.
Some of this materials came through sources and connections in Canada. Canada is still today a conduit/source for certain nuclear quality materials and equipments.

Orangetom wrote:
The religion changed on the surface because of new world empires and their religions but underneath ..all the precepts and indexes were still there.

Yes but it ain't Islam because Islam .

Most religious historians view Islam as having been founded in 622 CE by Muhammad the Prophet (peace be upon him).* He lived from about 570 to 632 CE). The religion started in Mecca, when the angel Jibril (a.k.a. Jibreel; Gabriel in English) read the first revelation to Muhammad

So you must agree then that we are talking about the old Sumerian Babylon religion. Because Islam is a more recent religion.

Islam may on the surface be a more recent religion..but underneath ..where it counts ..Islam is a perfect fit for the purposes of these peoples and groups...internationalists...Islam is demonic in its inside nature..not the face shown to the public but inside where only an adept would automatically notice.

Islam like the religion of the internationalists..shows a face to the public and another face in private..a perfect demonic match. Islam in this manner is Occult..hidden ..concealed..even esoteric..it is demonic.

However..yes..we are indeed talking about the olde Sumerian/Babylonian religion ..just under different guises.

However a note of caution here. The Muslims in practice hate and don't trust the Jews..Mostly. They hate and don't trust us here in the West as well. Like a demonic template they will use/misuse our systems and laws to get what they want and need.

However concerning the Jews and Israel...be warned about what the Jews in Israel have called the "Sampson Option."

Most of us here in the west, Raised on a diet of emotions and television educations haven't a clue what this is or means.

If you do not know...look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

This is something our own leaders here wish to avoid our knowing and awareness of...by deliberate omission. Our ministers and leaders of faith as well. So too with our MSM who are supposed to be looking out for us. Their investment too is in our ignorance. Particularly since they are shilling for the political process which is just an extension arm of these internationalists. And politics certainly is demonic in nature. Two faced..like the Roman Janus. Two faced and Occult.

This is what is coming in the mid east and soon. Buckle up.

However there must be the top of the top of leader or mason group. All those masonic groups are under whose thumb and please don't give me Satan for now.
You have Christian ,protestant and catholic masons, Jewish masons, Islamic masons, the Queen and the crown masons and elite and all kinds of other masons groups world world wide.

I told you that the nature of this thing is Demonic. That is the template they are following at the highest levels. Study the nature of the Pagan/demonic religions back into antiquity and you will, in process of time, know the name of their god. No it is not Satan.
Agree there would be a group or table at the top. My guess..is that few would even know who is on this group or table.....like the table of the money changers in the temple.
I think that if one knew by name..the members.. one would be short lived in this world.

They cannot be Talmudic. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah written 200 CE, the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara . 500 CE. Babylon and Egypt existed way before.
I agree that they appear to be Christians but they do follow principles of the Egyptian and ancient Sumerian Babylonian religions

The Talmud is not of Hebrew Origins. The Law Of Moses is what was given to the Hebrews on the Mount. Not the Talmud. The Talmud is not something in which most Christians would ever come into contact. Most Christians are so dumb about any and everything..even Christianity..that they don't even know of the existence of the Talmud.
The Talmud is however of ancient origins. The Hebrews came into contact with it big time in Captivity in Babylon. They were however trying to go back to some of the practices even in the Exodus out of Egypt. Kore and his rebellion and destruction in Exodus is one example of the Jews attempting to return to the olde ways of Talmudic Egypt.

In the Talmud..it's essence is of feudalism..royalty. A standard for insiders and a standard for outsiders. The Adepts and the Profane. In Egypt there were different systems for Royalty and then the outsiders. There was even a different secret standard of measurement for the insiders and then the outsiders. A royal measurement and then one for the outsiders or Profane. A cubit and then a Royal cubit. This is not widely taught about history today.
I think this dual measurement/accounting system is still going on today.

The Talmud though not written down for many years was in practice in many nations. I call all these dual practices and non standards by the Generic name or title of Talmud or Talmudic.

The Talmud is the practice of abominations of which the Hebrews were told "not" to get involved into as the defiled nations surrounding them had done. By privily adopting this practice..they themselves defiled their land and lost the whole thing by 70 AD...to the pagan Romans.

Christians today are followig this same pattern and most know it not. Our leaders are most certainly following it as well..and leading us down this same Talmudic path to the new world religion. The Religion of Babylon and before.

[quote]Yup and also because he was against Israel having nuclear arms and going against the the Federal Reserve which is a private banking system.[quote]

I am aware of JFK's dislike for the Federal Reserve System and the counterfeiting of American monies and coinage.

That JFK was against nuclear proliferation by Israel is a recent discovery of mine. I was not aware of it until sometime in the last two years. I think it highly probable and likely.

Gotta go ..things to do before shoving off again.

Thanks for a great post,
Orangetom

Orangetom wrote:

Yes, I too think that Islam is being used/misused by someone in this group to keep Western nations and peoples in check and in fear. Islam is replacing the Communist as a fear and control tactic.

Absolutely. I must digest your previous post and then reply.
You really stimulate my mind.

Having diner guests later must go will reply by tomorrow.
I appreciate your replies and comments.
To me all of this is so important
I have a fear and feeling that the world is going to shake and we are going into world war three starting in the middle east.
And its not going to be just a light show like the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

It is just amazing what your President and the United Nations can do. And this without counting our Sovereign Queen.
In the meantime everybody is tripping on Kate and William as rock stars.

Thanks see you tomorrow

Orangetom wrote
America England and Europe no longer fit this template as our costs have risen to high. So too with Japan and Korea. The new ant farm/Bee Hive is in China followed closely by India.


Very true and that is why Nike for example will sell running shoe at $245.00 while it cost them $1.00 .



Orangetom wrote:
I believe India is being invested in to keep China in check. In case China turns on her handlers as did Japan. Japan was the Crowns investment arena to protect their investments in Asia...the local Police force for their investments. This is how and why Japan got military might. A blue water international Navy at a time when most nations could barely afford a Brown water Navy ..local Navy or coastal navy. Japan was taught to build submarines, air craft carriers, airplanes at time when most countries could hardly afford them.

I did not know that.



Orangetom wrote
Communism appears to be something that the Crown approved as a Hegelian Dialectic for control purposes. They needed to support Communism even after Communism almost failed several times. Communism was invigorated or supported by economic influxes of aid from the west..both in direct help and technology or it would have gone under long before the Wall or Iron curtain fell. This is a carefully hidden history from most of us here in the West.

OK





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
Ok now I know what the term means
The Samson Option is a term used to describe Israel’s alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a “last resort”


Orangetom wrote:
This is what is coming in the mid east and soon. Buckle up.

I know the name of their god. No it is not Satan.

Cool i agree too ......that few would even know who is on this group or table.....like the table of the money changers in the temple.
I think that if one knew by name..the members.. one would be short lived in this world.

OrangretomWrote:
In the Talmud..it's essence is of feudalism..royalty. A standard for insiders and a standard for outsiders. The Adepts and the Profane. In Egypt there were different systems for Royalty and then the outsiders. There was even a different secret standard of measurement for the insiders and then the outsiders. A royal measurement and then one for the outsiders or Profane. A cubit and then a Royal cubit. This is not widely taught about history today.
I think this dual measurement/accounting system is still going on today.

Tichan
I agree I think the want one world wide Feudalism system


Orangetom

The Talmud is the practice of abominations of which the Hebrews were told "not" to get involved into as the defiled nations surrounding them had done. By privily adopting this practice..they themselves defiled their land and lost the whole thing by 70 AD...to the pagan Romans.

You got a point

Christians today are followig this same pattern and most know it not. Our leaders are most certainly following it as well..and leading us down this same Talmudic path to the new world religion. The Religion of Babylon and before.

Yes

I think soon we will witness the birth of the North American Union.

There's always the Amish

Tichan,

In the meantime everybody is tripping on Kate and William as rock stars.

I was not tripping on Kate and William. I am happy for them that they married but it was not a life changing event to me. It was the same when his mother married Charles so many years ago. I did not faint or swoon over it. I was happy for them too that they married.

I do not get all excited over "Royalty." It does not impress me. I am beyond the Cinderella Complex. Not interested in pomp and ceremony as well. But you do make a good point and I understand and appreciate what you are trying to say here.

I don't need such Amusements.

I need to be Mused...not amused.

Orangetom wrote:
I believe India is being invested in to keep China in check. In case China turns on her handlers as did Japan. Japan was the Crowns investment arena to protect their investments in Asia...the local Police force for their investments. This is how and why Japan got military might. A blue water international Navy at a time when most nations could barely afford a Brown water Navy ..local Navy or coastal navy. Japan was taught to build submarines, air craft carriers, airplanes at time when most countries could hardly afford them.

I did not know that.

This is an insurance policy based on cannon fodder. To take on China the cannon fodder must be local...must be a nuclear power, must have alot of peoples who can be used as cannon fodder.

To keep India in line there is another nuclear power ..if India gets out of line and has ambitions...called Pakistan.

Point ..counterpoint...balance of power...this is demonic. But it is an insurance policy.

America used to do this for them...but I believe they want a local power again.

In the olde days ..Communism and America...with England was the balance of power. Same olde demonic game plan while the internationalists worked their control of trade and money creation all over the globe.

[Tichan
I agree I think the want one world wide Feudalism system

I think so too..I believe they want to come out in the open with it..come out of the closet so to speak. Their hatred of Christianity and the line of Issac knows no bounds.

[Orangetom

The Talmud is the practice of abominations of which the Hebrews were told "not" to get involved into as the defiled nations surrounding them had done. By privily adopting this practice..they themselves defiled their land and lost the whole thing by 70 AD...to the pagan Romans.

You got a point

The nation known today as Israel..is also of Ishmael. It is not the nation in existence in the time of David ..nor the time when Jesus Christ was here in His earthly walk and teaching.
Israel today is a counterfeit man made construction made to look holy ...but it is not. There is nothing holy about today's Jerusalem nor the nation controlling it today.

The Muslims can have it as far as I am concerned. Nothing holy about it under them as well.
Not worth fighting over.

Oh sure ..there are interesting Historical things to see and read about still there ..but it is not the Israel of Pre Roman Conquerings and destruction of the Temple.

It was once God's Holy City ..and Lucifer wants it to build his holy city there today. To return to Ishmael.

Both the Muslims and Jews today are Ishmaelites..the Olde Testament. After Ishmael. This is what Galatians Chapter 4 declares. And Jerusalem today..of Mt Sinai in Arabia. ..here on this earth is in bondage with her children. This is demonic...it is not of God.

The Christian Jerusalem is the Jerusalem which is above.not made with hands.

If you know and believe this it becomes very obvious that many Christians and Jews both have it backwards..so too do many of the Atheists. Then it becomes clear what the Internationalist Occult followers are doing...trying to build the kingdom made with hands..of Ishmael. The Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children.

[I think soon we will witness the birth of the North American Union.

The North American Union will just be another vehicle to create more of a "Shakedown" of the West. We are slated to follow the pattern of the UK and the continent...to work for little of nothing..to lose the benefits of our labor and pay high over inflated costs for everything.

This is how a "Shakedown" works..because the free market does not work but is rigged.
This is our governments selling our souls for lucre..demonic/bondage....of Ishmael...son of the bondwoman.

Gotta run again...thanks for your posts.
Orangetom

This is all too deep for me, so what happened to the Stove orangetom?