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event_horizon
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 Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: 'Religulous' (documentary) |
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Saw this the other day. Excellent view on just how ridiculous religion actually is, and it's quite comical too. I had a blast.  A must see for anyone who possesses rationality and common sense.
Basically, the ultimate message is that as long as religion exists, humanity will never be able to progress (such not wanting to do anything about global warming, etc. because of the belief that the world will end soon, so why bother). And then there's the real threat of self-fulfilling the end of the world prophecy by using nukes, such as Bin Laden giving the message to his followers that the ultimate goal is to attain nukes and use them against the United States.
Ultimately, if there's going to be an "Armageddon," it's going to be by our own doings, not the Invisible Fantasyland Man's ("God's") doings.
Watch the trailer here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XePHrS1U9A
Read all about it here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/ |
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Questioner101
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| It was good, wasn't it....sorta reminds one, that people haven't been out-of-the-caves for very long....still the same mindset/awe at fire/lightening/woo-woo. |
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Wing-Zero
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Was pretty good, but Maher could turn the "Oh, you think that? I'm so much better than you then" attitude.
He also got the story of Horus wrong, and that list of countries they gave that compared how religious its people were in relation to the United States failed to give list any Middle Eastern countries.
Still, pretty funny. |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have always felt that Religion and Science were born of the same spirit of understanding, perhaps they are cousins, or sisters even.
Early on, man sought to understand the things of nature, the mysterious nature of how man began, how the world began, why there is "something" rather than "nothing", patterns, things in the sky, etc....so metaphors were invented to explain these things. I don't believe that in the beginning these things were meant to be taken so literally, but to be understood as symbolic and representative in context. Eventually "science" arose, which was merely the same spirit of curiousity expressing itself in a more exploratory and investigative context....eventually of course this developed into a division between the two....or perceived division rather.
In other words, I don't think "religion" itself is to blame, but the attitude of some that science and religion must be mutually exclusive...when this need not be the case....after all, it is my opinion that most "spiritual principles" make perfect sense in any case, and do not need to be in opposition to science...the only problem is science is focused more on the physical explanation of processes, whereas "spirituality" is focused more on the "why", or "origins" of a thing in the energetic or spirit.
"Do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you" is, incidentally, more than some religious saying, it is in fact a very important logical principle dealing with the interaction of mankind with mankind....there need not be any "woo woo". |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| Was pretty good, but Maher could turn the "Oh, you think that? I'm so much better than you then" attitude. |
He just laughs at how absurd some of these people are. From an atheist viewpoint, one can't help but laugh. They laugh at us too, and think they're better than the non-believers. But one has to consider which side is more ridiculous: an invisible magical man in the clouds?...or evolution following abiogenesis?
Which side has the most credibility? Ancient scientifically unsophisticated humanoids that had absolutely no understanding of the natural/physical world?...or modern-day science? From a rational standpoint, it's the latter. |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| fortwynt wrote: |
I have always felt that Religion and Science were born of the same spirit of understanding, perhaps they are cousins, or sisters even.
Early on, man sought to understand the things of nature, the mysterious nature of how man began, how the world began, why there is "something" rather than "nothing", patterns, things in the sky, etc....so metaphors were invented to explain these things. I don't believe that in the beginning these things were meant to be taken so literally, but to be understood as symbolic and representative in context. Eventually "science" arose, which was merely the same spirit of curiousity expressing itself in a more exploratory and investigative context....eventually of course this developed into a division between the two....or perceived division rather.
In other words, I don't think "religion" itself is to blame, but the attitude of some that science and religion must be mutually exclusive...when this need not be the case |
Yes, religion was a form of science before real science came along. People simply questioned why they existed, but didn't have the means to answer it, so they invented their own means in their own minds.
The problem with religion is that it tried to come up with all the answers to everything first, without having any evidence beforehand. For science, that would kinda be like Sir Isaac Newton telling the world that he knew what the grand unified field was, prior to knowing anything about quantum mechanics. It just doesn't work. You can't relate the two. Religion comes from a belief and science comes from evidence -- they are two completely separate entities.
| fortwynt wrote: |
| after all, it is my opinion that most "spiritual principles" make perfect sense in any case, and do not need to be in opposition to science...the only problem is science is focused more on the physical explanation of processes, whereas "spirituality" is focused more on the "why", or "origins" of a thing in the energetic or spirit. |
Since all of that is mere speculation and none of it is based on any scientific facts, the fact is that it remains in the religious/spiritual/philosophical department and out of the realm of science. |
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| event_horizon wrote: |
| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| Was pretty good, but Maher could turn the "Oh, you think that? I'm so much better than you then" attitude. |
He just laughs at how absurd some of these people are. From an atheist viewpoint, one can't help but laugh. They laugh at us too, and think they're better than the non-believers. But one has to consider which side is more ridiculous: an invisible magical man in the clouds?...or evolution following abiogenesis? |
Who the f**k cares which side is more ridiculous?
Everyone should just mind their own buisness when it comes to this stuff. If someone wants to believe there's a magic guy in the clouds let 'em. If someone wants to be a pessimistic downer and think that we're worm food when we die, let 'em.
Also, it doesn't help Maher's case when he's acting the same way as the people he's laughing at. |
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humphreys
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| event_horizon wrote: |
| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| Was pretty good, but Maher could turn the "Oh, you think that? I'm so much better than you then" attitude. |
He just laughs at how absurd some of these people are. From an atheist viewpoint, one can't help but laugh. They laugh at us too, and think they're better than the non-believers. But one has to consider which side is more ridiculous: an invisible magical man in the clouds?...or evolution following abiogenesis? |
Who the f**k cares which side is more ridiculous?
Everyone should just mind their own buisness when it comes to this stuff. If someone wants to believe there's a magic guy in the clouds let 'em. If someone wants to be a pessimistic downer and think that we're worm food when we die, let 'em.
Also, it doesn't help Maher's case when he's acting the same way as the people he's laughing at. |
I'm sorry, this just doesn't make any sense.
If you really believe in the Bible, for example, you can't just "mind your own business", because the Christian religion isn't like that.
Those who "mind their own business" don't get so many Brownie points with God. Also, by "minding their own business" they are refusing to even try to save their family, friends, and fellow humans from an eternity of torture.
Likewise, for scientists and atheists to just "mind their own business" when countless millions are being killed and oppressed in the name of God, the growth of mankind is being stunted, and basically we're trying to be kept back in the dark ages, the one thing you can't do, from either side, is just "mind your own business".
The problem of religion needs to be addressed. By "addressed", I don't neccessarily mean eradicated, but it certainly cannot be ignored. It needs to be understood, and certainly, if there happens to be any truth in it, as unlikely as that seems from my point of view, we as a race certainly need to know about it.
Why should religion get a free pass whereas extreme political views like racial hatred are topics that need focus?
You say "If someone wants to believe there's a magic guy in the clouds let 'em". Okay, what if that someone also believes that this magic guy created women just to serve men, as second class citizens? Just ignore that too? What if he tells his friend, who also starts to believe, and then he tells his friend, and then a million people believe the same thing? What if they start to take their beliefs seriously, and oppress women, veil them, abuse them, beat them for not obeying?
What if that becomes a whole nation's way of life?
At which stage do we stop "minding our own business"? When we get beheaded? |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| humphreys wrote: |
| Those who "mind their own business" don't get so many Brownie points with God. Also, by "minding their own business" they are refusing to even try to save their family, friends, and fellow humans from an eternity of torture. |
Seeing as how I probably put it in an enormous generalization, theres a difference between someone "minding their own buisness" to a complete stranger and dealing with a family member.
Regardless, if they did indeed keep their beliefs to themselves, then they'd understand that people truly just thought differently than they did and would leave those people to their own thoughts and ideals.
| Quote: |
| Likewise, for scientists and atheists to just "mind their own business" when countless millions are being killed and oppressed in the name of God, the growth of mankind is being stunted, and basically we're trying to be kept back in the dark ages, the one thing you can't do, from either side, is just "mind your own business". |
Likewise, theres a difference between a spiritual belief and breaking the laws of humanity. Killing someone is "illegal" regardless of what you might believe in and should be handled accordingly.
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| Why should religion get a free pass whereas extreme political views like racial hatred are topics that need focus? |
Religion, like racial hatred, should only get a "free pass" when it doesn't hurt anyone.
| Quote: |
You say "If someone wants to believe there's a magic guy in the clouds let 'em". Okay, what if that someone also believes that this magic guy created women just to serve men, as second class citizens? Just ignore that too? What if he tells his friend, who also starts to believe, and then he tells his friend, and then a million people believe the same thing? What if they start to take their beliefs seriously, and oppress women, veil them, abuse them, beat them for not obeying?
What if that becomes a whole nation's way of life? |
Then they should be stopped, obviously, since it now becomes a problem of safety towards a person who doesn't share the same ideals.
| Quote: |
| At which stage do we stop "minding our own business"? |
When people are physically in danger, I reckon. |
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humphreys
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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That's all very good and well, but it kinda misses the point.
My point is, religious beliefs are rarely the kind of beliefs that can be kept to one's self. Religious believers usually have a VERY strong belief that their views are correct, and their views themselves are often extreme - they single out non-believers as inferior, or worthy of punishment, they divide people, and they cause conflict.
Any true believer would be pretty selfish to keep his "amazing truths" to himself/herself, as their inaction could cause a non-believer to needlessly go to Hell, and any non-believer would be stupid to sit back and "mind their own business" while the religious are enforcing their beliefs and ideals upon others.
Religion is a very serious matter, and it isn't going away any time soon, and it isn't going to be kept quiet. Because of the very nature of religion and religious belief, conflict will continue to occur. |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| event_horizon wrote: |
| Wing-Zero wrote: |
| Was pretty good, but Maher could turn the "Oh, you think that? I'm so much better than you then" attitude. |
He just laughs at how absurd some of these people are. From an atheist viewpoint, one can't help but laugh. They laugh at us too, and think they're better than the non-believers. But one has to consider which side is more ridiculous: an invisible magical man in the clouds?...or evolution following abiogenesis? |
Who the f**k cares which side is more ridiculous?
Everyone should just mind their own buisness when it comes to this stuff. If someone wants to believe there's a magic guy in the clouds let 'em. |
Excuse me, but when there are nutjob savages out there flying planes into my country's buildings I'm not gonna "mind my own business." Humans and their silly/stupid "Gods" have gotten all of humanity in deep trouble. Both sides have been playing each other for a long time and all of us "unbelievers/infidels" are caught in the middle of it. Sooner or later this thing is going to go nuclear (I'm thinking in the next 10 to 20 years, if not sooner) and there will be nothing anybody can do about it but kiss their asses goodbye. I just come here to vent my frustrations about it. If you don't like it, I don't give a f**k.
| Wing-Zero wrote: |
If someone wants to be a pessimistic downer and think that we're worm food when we die, let 'em.
Also, it doesn't help Maher's case when he's acting the same way as the people he's laughing at. |
One of the main reasons we have this problem today is because of your fear about being "worm food when we die." It's one of the main reasons why man invented "God" and religion. We all need to get over that fear and face reality, but that would be too idealistic.
I'm not sure if worms can survive radiation, but if they do, at least they'll have enough food to last for quite a few of their generations, thanks to your ancient scientifically unsophisticated buddies. |
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I want to be a cockroach in my next life. They survive radiation. Maybe then I can get really cool new cockroach powers like Storm.
Wouldn't that be cool? 
Anyway, energy and matter cannot be destroyed. The only true question is whether or not consciousness survives the change. I dunno.  |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nesaie wrote: |
| Anyway, energy and matter cannot be destroyed. The only true question is whether or not consciousness survives the change. I dunno. |
Well, can you remember any previous life forms that your energy occupied? If the answer is no, then there you have it. |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| event_horizon wrote: |
| Nesaie wrote: |
| Anyway, energy and matter cannot be destroyed. The only true question is whether or not consciousness survives the change. I dunno. |
Well, can you remember any previous life forms that your energy occupied? If the answer is no, then there you have it. |
But then again, sometimes one wakes from a dream and cannot for the life of them remember the dream, or in reverse, one is dreaming and thinks nothing of the reality of themselves actually laying in a bed in slumber. |
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event_horizon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, true, but dreams don't have anything to do with any of your energy's previous consciousnesses. I don't recall any of my dreams that might suggest otherwise. |
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