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Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
Yes, Abu Ghraib was an exercise in restraint. |
Compared to the reality of us compared to them it definitely was.
that stuff was no more the fraternity hazing. Torture is you thinking you have a salient point and attempting to make one that then is pointless as usual. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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Personanongrata
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Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 1906
Location: NAU
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Uh huh. Our evil is less evil. Gotcha. |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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theking
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Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 560
Location: Washington, D.C.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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How can anything be less evil?
Is siphoning off $5 unbeknowst to you more evil than just taking $100 in front of your face? |
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"Sleep, and you will never awake anew." |
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Jaack
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Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Uh huh. Our evil is less evil. Gotcha. |
Mr Majority,
What we did was nothing, no where close to ACTUAL TORTURE. Did we drill them, cut off parts, shock them, rack them, hang them? F NO.
so BFD they wore some trash bags and stood on crates. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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Personanongrata
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 1906
Location: NAU
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Jaack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Uh huh. Our evil is less evil. Gotcha. |
Mr Majority,
What we did was nothing, no where close to ACTUAL TORTURE. Did we drill them, cut off parts, shock them, rack them, hang them? F NO.
so BFD they wore some trash bags and stood on crates. |
And what makes you think such things haven't been done, and aren't being done as you read, Mr. Naivete? |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Jaack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Uh huh. Our evil is less evil. Gotcha. |
Mr Majority,
What we did was nothing, no where close to ACTUAL TORTURE. Did we drill them, cut off parts, shock them, rack them, hang them? F NO.
so BFD they wore some trash bags and stood on crates. |
And what makes you think such things haven't been done, and aren't being done as you read, Mr. Naivete? |
Where's your proof mr majority. Plus I don't care what we do to the enemy. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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greeney2
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| How did we get from a stock market bailout, and bank forclosures to tortures in Iraq? |
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Personanongrata
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 1906
Location: NAU
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| greeney2 wrote: |
| How did we get from a stock market bailout, and bank forclosures to tortures in Iraq? |
Are the two completely unrelated, I wonder? |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| I think most liberials have that problem P! Don;t know truth from reality. |
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Personanongrata
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Joined: Dec 31, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Jaack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Jaack wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Uh huh. Our evil is less evil. Gotcha. |
Mr Majority,
What we did was nothing, no where close to ACTUAL TORTURE. Did we drill them, cut off parts, shock them, rack them, hang them? F NO.
so BFD they wore some trash bags and stood on crates. |
And what makes you think such things haven't been done, and aren't being done as you read, Mr. Naivete? |
Where's your proof mr majority. Plus I don't care what we do to the enemy. |
Of course you don't care. It's the "enemy", after all.
Proof? Proof can be disappeared, just as tapes can be destroyed.
In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths
By TIM GOLDEN
Published: May 20, 2005
Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.
The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.
Mr. Dilawar asked for a drink of water, and one of the two interrogators, Specialist Joshua R. Claus, 21, picked up a large plastic bottle. But first he punched a hole in the bottom, the interpreter said, so as the prisoner fumbled weakly with the cap, the water poured out over his orange prison scrubs. The soldier then grabbed the bottle back and began squirting the water forcefully into Mr. Dilawar's face.
"Come on, drink!" the interpreter said Specialist Claus had shouted, as the prisoner gagged on the spray. "Drink!"
At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.
"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying.
Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.
The story of Mr. Dilawar's brutal death at the Bagram Collection Point - and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a nearly 2,000-page confidential file of the Army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.
Like a narrative counterpart to the digital images from Abu Ghraib, the Bagram file depicts young, poorly trained soldiers in repeated incidents of abuse. The harsh treatment, which has resulted in criminal charges against seven soldiers, went well beyond the two deaths.
In some instances, testimony shows, it was directed or carried out by interrogators to extract information. In others, it was punishment meted out by military police guards. Sometimes, the torment seems to have been driven by little more than boredom or cruelty, or both.
In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning.
The Times obtained a copy of the file from a person involved in the investigation who was critical of the methods used at Bagram and the military's response to the deaths.
Although incidents of prisoner abuse at Bagram in 2002, including some details of the two men's deaths, have been previously reported, American officials have characterized them as isolated problems that were thoroughly investigated. And many of the officers and soldiers interviewed in the Dilawar investigation said the large majority of detainees at Bagram were compliant and reasonably well treated.
"What we have learned through the course of all these investigations is that there were people who clearly violated anyone's standard for humane treatment," said the Pentagon's chief spokesman, Larry Di Rita. "We're finding some cases that were not close calls."
Full Story: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2
...but you won't read it, will you?
And just think of the stories we never get to hear.
...but our government doesn't lie, does it? |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| greeney2 wrote: |
| How did we get from a stock market bailout, and bank forclosures to tortures in Iraq? |
O it started when I answered Aq's question how war is not murder. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9648
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Greeney,
You don't think war has any effect on our economy? The cost of the war in Iraq has nearly exceeded $600 billion:
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
Money that could have been appropriated towards renovating public infrastructure, aiding sustainable resources industry, and healthcare.
Jaack,
War is murder. There is no difference between a terrorist from the Middle-East who launches a rocket against an American humvee and an American airplane that air raids a Pakistani village. Actually, there is; many times we kill a host of civilians. There's a reason why war is hell. The only difference between individuals murdering other individuals and war is that war is government-approved murder. |
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_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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greeney2
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Tell me Aquarian, why have you and the anti-bush crowd been screaming abuot the war-profiteers for several years, now all of a sudden they are being bailed out on wall street? Which one is it, massive profits or massive losses? |
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Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9648
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| greeney2 wrote: |
| Tell me Aquarian, why have you and the anti-bush crowd been screaming abuot the war-profiteers for several years, now all of a sudden they are being bailed out on wall street? Which one is it, massive profits or massive losses? |
I didn't agree with the Bailout. |
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_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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greeney2
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I may not agree with it either, becasue I'm not one of the dumbasses who lived over their means financing the kitchen sink, including last years dinners out that arn't paid for yet. The war in Iraq didn;t make people go out of control, living with leased cars, toys, motorhomes, and buying homes in an inflated market.
But you and I elected the people who just voted the issue in, probably becasue the depression ahead was unthinkable. Instead of Blaming Bush, blame the people who live like financial disasters, who can't afford half the things they do. Blame the banks for lending on unrealistic incomes for the cost of these homes and toys. The Iraq war had nothing to do with that. We put them in ofice to manage the store, now live with it. You have had a Democratic Congress for 2 years, but you blame the Bush administration and the republicans. The world if full of people who do nothing and critisize like you. I hear very few solutions to big problems from you Aquarian! |
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