 | |  |  | | | | | | | | | | | | |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
| |
| Author |
Message |
Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9648
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: The Bailout Ordeal: Agree, Disagree, or More Complicated? |
 |
|
| |
The H.O.R. is expected to take a vote on this at 1pm (9/29/2008) with the Senate voting on it on Wednesday (10/01/2008). It's a 106pg. plan and you can read it here:
http://www.radiosunny.com/cc-common/mlib/616/09/616_1222631983.pdf
Here's the news release of the "Compromise" our "wonderful" leaders worked out:
The House is close to voting Monday on a $700 billion bailout of the nation's troubled credit markets, after Democratic and Republican leaders worked into the night Sunday to line up enough votes for passage.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., scheduled a vote for mid-day Monday on a bill that the White House helped negotiate, and President Bush again called for its passage.
The measure will "keep the crisis in our financial industry from spreading," across the economy, Bush said Monday from the White House. "We'll make clear that the U.S. is serious about restoring confidence and stability in our financial system."
Pelosi, in a speech on the House floor, called the measure "a bipartisan inititiative."
"We have to have a bipartisan vote on this. That is the only thing that will send a message of confidence to the markets," she said.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: White House | Virginia | Wall Street | Main Street | McLean | George W Bush | D-Calif | D-Mass | D-Conn | Dow Jones Industrial Average | Pennsylvania Democrat | R-Texas | Rep. Jeb Hensarling | Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd | Rep. Louie Gohmert
But the outcome appeared far from certain as the vote approached. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland would not say Monday that he was confident the measure would pass.
"Hopefully, we will pass this. We have the majority of votes on our side. I'm hopeful the Republicans have the majority of votes on their side. If they do we'll pass this bill," Hoyer said. "We think the crisis is real…we hope it passes."
Rep. Jim Cooper, D-Tenn., said the final vote was likely to be close.
"There are no extra brave people," Cooper said. "This is the most difficult time for people to be statesmen — 37 days before an election."
"We're not there yet. We're struggling. It's going to be a very interesting day," Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat close to his party's House leadership, said late Monday morning.
As the House debate continued, supporters cast the measure as an unwanted but necessary move.
"No one is happy that we have seen the failures that we have seen in our economic system," House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., told the House. He argued that Main Street, not Wall Street, now would suffer if there was no action.
"Any purchase that requires credit of any size — people will get hurt," Frank said, arguing that inaction would make it difficult to impossible to finance the purchases of cars and homes.
Opponents were skeptical that the bailout would staunch the financial bleeding. " I feel that it is too much bailout and not enough workout," said Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas. "If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed."
On the opposite end of the ideological spectrum, liberal Democrat Lloyd Doggett of Texas called the bill too generous to the nation's financial kingpins. "The vultures have no come home to roost," he said.
"It's like a big cowpie with a little bit of marshmallow inside and I don't want to eat the cowpie," said Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas.
Wall Street reacted negatively as the debate began. The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped more than 300 points when markets opened Monday, and remained down by more than 250 points at mid-day.
Backers of the measure continued to press their case in the hours before the vote. On Monday, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., again said failing to act would make the situation much worse for all taxpayers. "This is not just about Wall Street," he said in a broadcast interview.
Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., who represented fellow Republicans in the hard-fought 10 days of talks that culminated in a deal early Sunday morning, called it a "tourniquet" for the ailing financial industry and slow-moving economy.
Still, both men said the necessity of such massive government action is a sad day for the nation. Asked if the legislation would pass, Dodd said only: "We hope so."
Contributing: Associated Press; John Fritze in Washington; Douglas Stanglin and Randy Lilleston in McLean, Va.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-09-29-bailout-congress_N.htm |
|
_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Author |
Message |
greeney2
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
You beat me to the post, I was doing the same thing but lost what I was writing.
I'm not sure anyone knows if this will help the economy, its a hail mary pass that in itself may just clam the panic and turn things the other direction. Lets pray it deverts a depression.
What I was going to post is that it will help wall street and the banks. It will help people with 401K plans from them further plumeting. Most people are under the impression its going to save all the forclosures.
It isn;t going to help anyone in forclosure. It isn;t going to help anyone with a negative equity. It isn;t expected to make housing values go back up. It will not help high variable interrest loans refinance or get home equity loans becasue the loans are upside down now. Those people are all doomed now, but the financial institutions that made those loans will probably benifit by being rescued. Lets face it, when forclosures occur, the banks are loosing every dime of the negative equity, not the homeowner. The homeowner just got out of the debt, the the bank actually fronted that money out and loses it. Plus the interest income off the loan stops.
Bottom line is the banks and lenders, closed their eyes to the actual risk loaning on property at such a peak. They were negligent in granting the loans since the homeowner is a layman in the market, and banks are the professionals. You can;t blame a homeowner for wanting a home, althought I do blame the homeowner placing unrealistic expectations on themselves to pay for these loans for decades. Everybody looses on these forclosures. The homeowner eats everything they invested. The banks eat every dime they loaned, The rest of the country gets all the loss column amortized into what we continue to pay for. Somebody has to pay for all the losses. Thats the way the banking bussiness works. Thats the way our medical system works--the people with good insurance get their bills overbilled to compensate for all the losses from the under/uninsured. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
greeney2
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
| Evidently it was defeated in the House. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Computer_Guy
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 7863
Location: US
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
It's a start...........now we need to bring the criminals envolved to justice.
This bailout amounts to paying bank robbers for having robbed you!
Hell no it isn't going to help!
You may aswell hand your life savings to a crackhead on the corner! |
|
_________________
Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.
JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
greeney2
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
Part of the news on Yahoo about the vote. You can tank Nancy Polosi for derailing it.
| Quote: |
| Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil. |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9648
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
I find it incredible that a few Republicans (12 to be exact) were offended by Nancy Pelosi's "scathing" speech that blamed Bush for economic turmoil. Sure, she's wrong in the sense that it's not only Bush that is responsible for these economic downturns, but I still find it incredibly hilarious that Republican politicians are offended 
Anyways, yes, it failed 228 Nay- 205 Yea
The bill WILL NOT come to a revote today.
Nor will it come to a vote in the Senate on Wednesday (obviously).
Here's relevant analysis though:
Plan Offers Very Little For Homeowners
Hard as it is to believe, even a $700 billion bailout may not be enough to dig the economy and financial markets out of the hole they're in.
By committing such a staggering sum to end the widening financial crisis, Congress and the White House are hoping to deliver a swift knockout punch to the fear gripping the global markets and economy. But to win bipartisan support, key provisions have been watered down or left vague — including any efforts to stop the wave of foreclosures at the heart of the meltdown.
Much of the debate — and opposition to the plan — centered on Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s original request for sweeping powers to spend hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars on mortgage-backed securities that are unable to attract other buyers.
Opponents of the Treasury's original three-page proposal who balked at the lack of oversight have won provisions that place controls over the purchase process. The plan involves creation of a Financial Stability Oversight Board that includes Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, which will report regularly to a newly created congressional committee. Details of individual transactions involving taxpayer dollars will be disclosed.
The hope is that after the government jump-starts the market with massive purchases of the riskiest paper, private investors will follow, unfreezing trillions of dollars in capital that has fled to safety until the full scope of the crisis can be determined.
But it's not clear exactly how the mechanics of the plan will work; some of those details are still being finalized. Too much oversight could slow the government response — market panics don’t wait for government hearings. Treasury officials on a conference call with reporters Sunday deflected questions on “implementation.”
As the government begins to buy distressed investments, the hope is that a market price will allow banks and other financial firms to get a better idea of the value of bad paper on their books. But if the new “market” price is lower than the value already assigned these assets, another round of bank losses could follow.
So the bailout bill includes a safety valve. The Securities and Exchange Commission has the authority to suspend so-called “mark to market” accounting rules, so banks would not necessarily have to recognize those losses immediately.
Click for related content
Vote and discuss: Is the compromise bill a good deal?
First Person: Anger on Main Street
Other provisions — left over from the yearlong debate over this summer’s housing relief bill — were also revived in the current plan. With taxpayer money in harm's way, Congress succeeded in putting a cap on pay packages for executives at companies that take advantage of the bailout.
That has plenty of loopholes. Existing contracts on pay packages can’t be changed, and executives in charge of financial companies that get help from the bailout can only have their pay docked if they get fired or the company fails.
But the biggest unknown is whether the government’s pledge to help homeowners at risk of losing their homes will be any more effective than past efforts to slow the pace of defaults and foreclosures. Until that tide begins to turn, the housing market will continue to be bloated with big inventories of bank-owned houses put back on the market at fire-sale prices. That puts downward pressure on all home prices. And until home prices stabilize, it’s impossible to assign a value to the troubled investments at the heart of Wall Street's problems.
More:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26931454/page/2/ |
|
_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9648
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
More news:
DOW PLUNGES 777.78 Points- largest drop ever- House to reconvene on Thursday
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/
We must ask ourselves:
Is what good for Wallstreet always good for Main Street? |
|
_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Aquatank
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 3831
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
I'd rather have this bailout be an STET, that way the rich folk who got the country into this mess can bail themselves out instead of the bulk of the American taxpayer doing it. After all I pay tax on anything I buy except food, why should there be a tax on stocks, apparently there used to be until 1966.
Its good the thing the current bill failed because it had no help for the lendees who were paryed on by the loan industry and its generally unfair practices.
If they are going to fix this mess they should do it.
In the mean time with stocks falling so badly, this is the time for the regular American to do quick research and buy up the good company stocks as a long term investment. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
theking
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 560
Location: Washington, D.C.
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
If Main Stream was smart, Americans would start liquidating a bunch of crap they don't need and purchasing small stock shares. We're going to pay it anyway, might as well make a profit. This is a legitimate, bloodless way to get the money back into the masses hands. But even that sacrifice is too much for some.
 |
|
_________________
"Sleep, and you will never awake anew." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
The bill and a govt bail out is a farce.
The bill got voted down cause it give far, far, far too much power to the treasury secretary.
Plus the dumb firms who followed Fannie and Freddie into la la land of mortgases should go bust.
The fix is simple, remove taxes from the business who buy the lame azz debt, and reduce or remove taxes for gains etc... Let the alleged geniuses who got themselves into this get themselves out.
NO GOVT! $$$$$$$$
Plus had AIG and Lehman been allowed to fail, where they would have to auction off assets in bankruptcy court, oil would be trading at about $60 - $75 a barrel.
AIG was saved cause they have so many oil futures contracts as did Lehman, these were bought as a hedge against housing, the dollar, and other stocks.
These bail out are crap as is the idea of govt buying paper to sell later for an alleged profit. If that happens they will spend any alleged surplus before they have it, instead of use the $$$$ to pay down debt.
I'm starting to believe we will soon be more socialist than Russia. |
|
_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
| Computer_Guy wrote: |
It's a start...........now we need to bring the criminals envolved to justice.
This bailout amounts to paying bank robbers for having robbed you!
Hell no it isn't going to help!
You may aswell hand your life savings to a crackhead on the corner! |
I completely agree.
They all deserve jail and lots of jail, especially the executives of the GSE's, where crimes were committed. |
|
_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
theking
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Aug 19, 2008
Posts: 560
Location: Washington, D.C.
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
The simplicity behind it though is SOMEONE has to pick up the tab within the United States. Another 700 billion going over to China. That would seriously hurt the trade deficit beyond any reasonable measure. The sad thing is that it doesn't hurt the U.S. the most. The UK/Netherlands/Finland and all those garbage socialist countries that are funneled USD by the freighterload are going to be the ones that get screwed the most by this ordeal.
United States has roughly $89,000 invested in every Brit. |
|
_________________
"Sleep, and you will never awake anew." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
| theking wrote: |
The simplicity behind it though is SOMEONE has to pick up the tab within the United States. Another 700 billion going over to China. That would seriously hurt the trade deficit beyond any reasonable measure. The sad thing is that it doesn't hurt the U.S. the most. The UK/Netherlands/Finland and all those garbage socialist countries that are funneled USD by the freighterload are going to be the ones that get screwed the most by this ordeal.
United States has roughly $89,000 invested in every Brit. |
Yeah cause the exec at Freddie and Fannie packaged garbage loans to people with NO credit as AAA paper. So banks and entities in Europe bought into the lie that everyone can own a home spouted by the liars over here.
Now we have to back the AAA paper for all the FFF credit rating people. fricking greatness.
There's a glut of homes cause of people who didn't even have to show income had homes built, now they are too big of a loser to pay their mortgages, sell and take the hit, or refi.
Fricking ridiculous. |
|
_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
greeney2
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9634
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
Before you blame 12 republicans, the Democrats control the house and 90 of them voted NO!
What i would like to know is how many Congressmen and Senators sold or moved stock in the last few days, and violated what could amount to insider information? If they knew the bill would fail, and bailed out of their own stocks within these days, that is a criminal act in my opinion. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2484
Location: Google Earth
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| |
| greeney2 wrote: |
Before you blame 12 republicans, the Democrats control the house and 90 of them voted NO!
What i would like to know is how many Congressmen and Senators sold or moved stock in the last few days, and violated what could amount to insider information? If they knew the bill would fail, and bailed out of their own stocks within these days, that is a criminal act in my opinion. |
I'm not blaming Republicans.
Dems have blocked overhaul and improved oversight of Fan and Fred since 1999. They used their normal tactics, since the fred pres was black, make it a race thing, and claim the republicans want to harm the poor, and the wimpy Repubicans caved as they always do to the left and their marxist tactics..
Looks to me like the poor have been wiped out with loans they cannot afford, nor had any business having in the first place. |
|
_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
| | | | | | | |
| |
blocks-left.jpg
blocks-left.jpg
blocks-left.jpg
|  |
Online Stats: 
