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When does a watch come into existence
April 13, 2012
7:31 pm
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at1with0
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An analogy...

Suppose some one or some thing is making a watch.
At what point does that watch start existing?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 13, 2012
8:28 pm
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humphreys
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When it matches the definition of "watch".

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

April 13, 2012
10:12 pm
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at1with0
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What if I were to remove the arms on a watch or turn off the display, yet internally it is still keeping time. Is it still a watch?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 14, 2012
8:34 am
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greeney2
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"at1with0" wrote: An analogy...

Suppose some one or some thing is making a watch.
At what point does that watch start existing?

When he starts making it. If you asked him "What are you making'? He would say "A watch", unless he said "its none of your business", but it would still be a watch.

A lot of things never get off a drawing board, and are only concepts, but they still start to exist in the concept stage. Our military is full of them.

April 14, 2012
9:32 pm
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at1with0
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Interesting..

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 18, 2012
8:14 pm
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greeney2
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Yes, it still is keeping time, its just not telling us what time it is, with the hands removed. If I made a devise to wear on my wrist, and printed on the face was "now", is that also a watch? The time will always be correct. Laugh

April 19, 2012
1:43 am
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at1with0
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So the definition of watch is important, clearly.

If we were talking about "when does a human come into existence," are we going to go with as soon as human DNA is present?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 19, 2012
2:46 am
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greeney2
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If you ask when does a human exist, its conception, just like the watch, but much more fun to build. Laugh

April 19, 2012
2:56 am
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at1with0
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Does it have unalienable human rights at conception then?

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April 19, 2012
7:22 am
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frrostedman
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"at1with0" wrote: Does it have unalienable human rights at conception then?

One would hope so, but it is clearly not the case. That is, if you are talking about a baby born in the US and its Constitutional rights.

If you are talking bigger picture, absolutely it has unalienable, "God-given" rights at conception, which is why Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others believe abortion at any stage or prengancy is the equivalent of infanticide or, murder.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

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