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Some of the contradictions in the bible
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orangetom1999
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May 19, 2016 - 4:43 am
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By the way ivanrodz,

You do realize that by the talking points you are trying to make ...that politics qualifies as a religion ...and a very zealous and devout religion. A religion with a lot of devouted and zealous adherents...the faithful.

And politics is the very religion which has carried out "Democide" on such a scale in the last 100 years of intellectual, educated, enlightened men...of science.

And science itself is become a very devout and zealous religion today with very dedicated followers.

The preferred religion. Yet here we have science being funded by many of the very governments carrying out "Democide." A bit of an irony here.

For science ..while putting us in better, cars, computers, homes, clothes, foods, etc etc et al...has not made us better people. Better consumers..yes...but not better people. Certainly not better voters.

 

Thanks,

Orangetom

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ivanrodz
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August 11, 2016 - 8:21 pm
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Wow, it's been almost 3 months. 

greeney2, you brought help, that's cool but I think some of his references to my person are kind of rude and totally out of the topic of my original post.

orangetom1999...man, my original post was about contradictions in the bible...my main idea was to expose some of those and to talk about them etc... because I like that topic (and UFO's)...but you sound kind of "angry" almost like attacking me personally. Your friend was the first one to wrote about topics like history etc...I just answered. So, let's begin.  

  • You said: "You seem want to forget history in that the other religions were also practicing slavery...even into the 20th century". You're wrong...I don't forget that because I've never said that other religions don't practiced slavery. That has nothing to do with my original post 
  •  You said: "No sexism...really!!?? Do women practice sexism..even among themselves..classism?? Even in Western Affluent societies?? How about in Communist/Anti God nations...the men too...party members verses non party members. How have the  mighty fallen.... Torture...rape..."  WTF. Man, I mentioned slavery, child endangerment, bigotry, racism, sexism, classism, blackmail or bribery, discrimination against LGBTQ, incest, torture or terrorism, rape and cruelty to animals because all of those things are present throughout the bible and yet most Christians think the bible is the ultimate moral guide because they don't even know or don't wanna know. I mean, WTF communist anti-god nations have to do with this ? I'm not debating whether those nations do or not those things. Of course they do but I'm talking about the bible.
  • You said: "Killings....do you even have a clue how many people have been killed by their own government in the Atheistic Non God Believing nations ..the Humanist nations like Soviet Russia...Communist China...or do you think no one in this country knows this information" Dude, I've never said the governments don't kill people...I'm aware of all killings, massacres and atrocities that have been committed in those nations...but once again, that has nothing to do with the killings in the bible because whether those nations kill their people or not that does't make the bible killings less true. By the way, are you justifying the bible killings because atheist nations also have killings ?
  • You said: "You seriously need to research a concept called.... "Democide." Death by ones own government" You have to stop underestimating people. Man, I agree with you on this and I already know all of this stuff but once again, that has nothing to do with my posts about the bible killings or "holly wars". If you want to deviate the original topic to talk about government killings I'm more than happy to do so. Let's talk about "false flags operations", "crisis actors", "chem trails", "mind control", "project blue beam", "Illuminati" etc... I have more than enough information to share with you.
  • You said: "262 million is a lot of people in 100 years and you are want to stick events back in a time warp some where and think no one knows this or can see it for what it is??" Yes, I want to stick to the bible events BECAUSE THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL POST AND SINCE THIS IS MY POST I CAN STICK TO WHATEVER I WANT. Dude, you keep trying to make me change the subject of the post to the one that you want but that's not gonna happen. Yes, that's a lot of peoples in 100 years but that has nothing to do with the bible thing. 
  • You said: "I will tell you something else that a believer knows ...but non believers do not...
    No intelligent thinking rational human being defines themselves by their sexuality and sexual orientation and then expects or demands that other people approve or keep silent." I would like to know who you reach to the conclusion that non-believers don't know what you wrote here.  
  • You said: "A Believer tends to define themselves by the God who lives in them 24/7. They do not define themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. When I see someone doing so or promoting such an position I automatically know how ignorantly uneducated they are. How uncultured they are. This because I know that proper educated human beings are so much more than sex and sexuality." Dude, really ? You're implying that non-believers define themselves by their sexual orientation ? I would like to know your sources...unless you invented those points because God lives inside you. So, believers define themselves by the God who lives in them ? That is so hypocrite.......buddy, your entire post was either attacking me or attacking non-believers and you are talking and identify yourself as a believer that has God living inside ? Besides, who told you non believers define themselves by their sexual orientation and that they're only sex and sexuality ? You are so wrong brother...your bigotry is blinding you. How about some examples of your believers...the ones with God inside:
  1. http://bishop-accountability.org/member/
  2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_leaders_convicted_of_crimes
  3. http://www.rawstory.com/2016/0.....ast-month/
  4. http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....story.html

As for your thoughts about believers being more educated than non-believers: For your information there's more than enough evidence about the correlation between intelligence and religious disbelief...it does't matter if you believe it or not because God is inside you... reality is you can't change facts and evidence...contrary to the God living inside you that it's only inside your head...and of course, living inside you 24/7.

"A highly controversial topic is whether atheists tend to be more intelligent than theists. A study conducted in 2013 used a meta-analysis of 63 scientific studies and found that 53 showed a reliable correlation between intelligence and a disbelief in supernatural beings. Only 10 showed a neutral or negative correlation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....tific.html

"A different way to look at this issue is to examine the beliefs of one of the most intelligent groups of people, The National Academy of Sciences. Approximately 93% of these scientists are either atheist or agnostic"

http://creationwiki.org/Nation.....f_Sciences

"A third way to examine this topic is to compare education levels with the degree of belief in the inerrancy of the Bible, as documented at: http://www.religioustolerance......errant.htm

"Formal education had a significant effect on a person’s belief in Biblical inerrancy. 46% of persons with high school education or less believe that the Bible should be interpreted literally. This dropped to 22% for persons with some college education, and to 15% among college graduates"

http://www.calamitiesofnature......ive/?c=619

"This represents important evidence against Christianity (and other religions as well) because, in the history of mankind, any sea change in conventional wisdom is first promoted by the smartest and most educated members of society.  This was true of the rejection of the earth-centered model of the solar system.  It was also true of the change from a flat earth to a spherical earth, as well as the ongoing transition from a creationist explanation of life to an evolutionary one.  Given those examples, it can be predicted that the intellectuals who have embraced atheism have once again identified the correct sense of reality"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mr-personality/201312/why-are-religious-people-generally-less-intelligent

http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....58046.html

Last but not least...NO, I did not go to public schooling. My masters degree is not from a public univ. either....but even if I were i fail to see the relevance to the person's capacity. I know judges, politicians and teachers who went to public schooling and they are not less than me. If you was lucky enough to have been raised in a "wealthy" family with "wealthy" parents who had enough income to send you to special schools...well, good for you. Seriously dude, stop being a bigot...learn how to respect others and treat people the way you would like to be treated...Don't you have God inside you 24/7 ?   

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greeney2
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August 12, 2016 - 12:49 am
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I didn't bring anyone to help, I just said a few months ago there were several people who could talk about these contradictions with real knowledge, I don't have.  They follow the forum regularly, but in the last year or so, not many people are following the forum at all.  

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ivanrodz
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August 12, 2016 - 6:00 pm
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greeney2 said
I didn't bring anyone to help, I just said a few months ago there were several people who could talk about these contradictions with real knowledge, I don't have.  They follow the forum regularly, but in the last year or so, not many people are following the forum at all.    

OK, understood. But the thing is he did not talk about anything from the bible..not even the contradictions. He tried to deviate from the original topic to talk about government killings. He just tried to justified the bible stuffs by saying "oh, some governments are killing people and you want to stick to the past"...it's like, "don't talk bad things about the bible because the government are doing terrible things....and non-believers countries like China have killed tons of people". Also, attacking non-believers by saying believers are better humans and have better moral guidance because they have God inside. I really would like to know from where in the world he is getting that info...that non-believers are defined just by the sexual thing...WTF.  

Anyway, changing subjects...what are your thoughts on Trump and the republicans ? I definitely don't understand republicans...they always have been obsessed with the "christian values" and now they are supporting that guy. I was talking with a "christian" who was saying that next president should reverse all same-sex laws and protections and deport all damn Mexicans because and I quote ("This country was founded on Christian values, hence all the biblical references all over the place. Also most of this country is Christian from one group or another and a lot frown upon same sex marriage. Again, if you understand, not that you have to agree, about the Christian faith, you would understand this") As far as I know this country wasn't founded on any christian values and so far I haven't found any evidence in the Constitution that support his point. I was gonna answer his post by asking him to read article 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli but I don't know if I should waste my time.   

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greeney2
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August 13, 2016 - 9:47 am
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I think its very obvious our founding fathers designed our country based on the Christian/Judeo values and principles. They are not founded on Buddist, Hindu, or Islamic values or principles.  We do not have Sharia Law, dictatorships, a King, dynastys, or country ran by clerics.   The People are the government, and our people as a whole are Christian/Judeo in principle, clearly we are not Buddist, Hindu, or Islamic. 

I think its also very obvious the sqeeky wheel gets the oil, and those who distort the meaning of our Constitution, taking atheist issues to our Supreme Courts, forcing the majoriety to bow to the adgendas of the few.  We see this in so many social issues, in cases like same sex marriages, striking the word God out of anything in schools, school prayers, boy scout values, demanding the Ten Commandments be removed from a courts entrance, and to trying to remove the WTC beams, that survived forming a crucifix.  When the parents of a 6 year old take an issue of a school prayer to court, forcing everyone else to submit to that one person, our Constitution is being abused. 

You call out Republicans, but I know of no church when you walk in the door, that does not give the same messages to any political persuasion.  

I did a post one time about the difference between our laws and what we know to be sins, as taught in  most churches.  Many things are not against the law, but are known to all of us to be sins. Right and wrong, is not always consistant with legal and illegal in our system of Justice. People forget we have 3 branches of government, and the Judicial and Legislature, many times conflict in our laws and how those laws are inturpeted. We make laws, they are not perfect, and the Judical system checks and balances that, along with the Exectutive Branch.  You have no such system in the Buddist, Hindu, or Islamic based countries or societies. You can not find a government building, courthouse, or other sturcture, that does not have symbols of these values in the archtecture. We definately are a Christian/Judeo society, but you have those who wish to have them wiped out, and you see it right now in Europe. There are some countries clearly Atheistic in nature, and countries clearly Islamic and slowing pushing for Sharia Law concepts. There is movements in this country twards making us a Godless society when Atheists force issues upon us, and the growing idea of Islamic culture grows. You saw this in the Olympics, the Muslim Girl wearing her head covering, actually pressured Micheal Phelps to give up the Flag for her to carry it. He did not do it, Thankfully, and only days after the Muslim girl was talking trash about the USA.  She was eliminated almost immediatly in her fencing sport, serves her right focusing of forcing her adgenda down the USA's throat. 

You want a short answer, liberal left is killing this country with political correctness, moving us to a Godless society in favor is social issues they want, and Conservative values are disappearing. The liberal left, will rewrite the Constitution, if you allow them to load the Supreme Court with all liberal judges.  Not to mention Hillary is the most corrupt liar we have ever seen, mellenials could care less, as long as they get free stuff, socialism, and laws that don't make them decided on what is and is not a sin, or right and wrong. 

Trump may not be my first choice, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary with a gun to my head. 

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ivanrodz
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August 13, 2016 - 12:49 pm
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Well, it might be obvious for you but not for others. USA was not founded on Christians values but on the Constitution. People can belief what they want but facts are facts and as long as they live here in USA, the Constitution is the law of the land...not the bible. Haven't we see enough of the brutal and bloody consequences of religious intolerance from other countries, specially in the middle east ? Conservatives want to trash our founding document by violating the First Amendment in hopes of establishing Christianity as the nation’s religion but that is precisely what the Constitution prohibits. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 

The Constitution makes zero reference to a god or Christianity except for article VI that says "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States".....and the first amendment. Religion is only discussed in the context of keeping matters of faith separate from concerns of governance, and of keeping religion free from government interference. The founding fathers could not be clearer on this point: God has no role in government; Christianity has no role in government. They make this point explicitly, repeatedly, in multiple founding documents. We are not a Christian nation. Another proof is the Treaty of Tripoli...that was ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate 1797 and signed by president John Adams. Article 11 clearly states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries" People can have their own interpretation...but there's only one document.

Same happens with the bible and same sex marriage thing. Conservatives only justification to be against that is because the bible says so. I wonder why they're so intense with that only topic and not with others also present in the same book. For instance, there are many, many things prohibited by God himself in the same place where's the gay thing is...below you will see just a few...the ones I remember; 

  • you can't wear mixed cloth / you can't have short haircuts / you can't use excessive jewelry / you can't plant different seeds in the same crop / you can't hold a grudge on someone / you can't work on Saturdays / you can't divorce / you can't have sex and not ejaculating inside / you can't be or use mediums or spirits / you can't commit adultery / you can't have sex with a woman when she's on her period / you can't lie / you can't cheat / you can't pick up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard / you cannot eat certain birds / you can't eat fat or blood / you can't eat shellfish or clams or oysters or urchins or lobsters or rabbits or pigs or camels / you can't sacrifice anything with yeast or honey / you can't eat any meat not killed according to the Kosher practice / you can't be uncircumcised / you can't manufacture anointing oil / you can't touch an unclean animal / you can't fail to include salt in God's offerings / you can't fail to testify against any wrongdoing you've witnessed or been told about / you can't drink alcohol in holy places / you can't eat any animal that walks on all four and has paws / your wife can't go to church for 33 days after giving bith to a boy or 66 if it's a girl / you can't make idols or metal gods / you can't have tatoos

Now, most Christians don't even know those things are also prohibited and yet they just like to cherry-pick just the ones about homosexuals. That is because most of them don't read the bible...they just follow their pastors/priests blindly without even bother to analyze by themselves. That's called hypocrisy. They refuse to acknowledge those things and just keep torturing and making the life of other human beings miserable...just like in last century with the colored people. The interesting thing is that in that same bible God himself is responsible for many horrible murders/massacres/killings/torturing events and yet conservatives seem to be fine with that. It's like..."let's make those damn gays pay for their horrible sin because the bible says so" and when you confront them with evidence they're like "oh, you're getting that out of context"...LOLLL 

  • God sent bears to kill some children and orders to kill everyone that is not christian
  • He orders that if a woman is raped she must marry her rapists 
  • He doesn't want people with blemishes, blind people, the lame, those with flat noses, dwarves, people with scurvy, people with bad eyes, people with bad skin, and those that "hath their stones broken to go into churches although he's technically responsible for giving people all of these afflictions in the first place
  • He committed so much genocide and murdered countless people in horrible ways simply because he was pissed off. He even ordered his underlings to kill their own children and killed a man just for not making more babies (genesis 38:1-10). In judges 14 we sew how he was helping Samson murder people to pay off a bet...I mean, how in the world you would help someone to commit mass murder to settle a completely stupid bet ? When people complain about the killings he responded by killing even more people...we can see that in numbers 16. 
  • There are approximately 158 events throughout the bible that if you examine each one of them carefully you will know the reality of that book. http://dwindlinginunbelief.blo.....ble.html 
  • He even condones slavery and told us specific instructions for slave masters. Some Christians today claim that the Bible actually refers to servants, who were presumably working voluntarily for wages. http://www.badnewsaboutchristi.....very.htm 

Now, tell me again how all of the above is a moral guidance for humanity ? Tell me again how conservatives are so strict with just the homosexual things and ignore all of this ? Tell me again how they prefer continue making the life of homosexuals miserable and deny them some basic rights as human beings and think they are making God happy ? Tell me again how that's a good an moral thing to do ? Brother, it's common sense...that's not God...the bible has nothing to do with God. If there's a God, he or she or it is definitely not the one we've been taught to believe in. We all are humans beings...whether believers or atheist or gays or lesbians or blacks or whites or Latinos or Mexicans or men or women or fats or thins or homeless or executives or trash collectors or presidents.     

Best Regards, 

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ivanrodz
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August 13, 2016 - 4:16 pm
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greeney2 said
Trump may not be my first choice, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary with a gun to my head.   

I forgot about this one. OK, conservatives "family values" are voting for Trump because he's the living example of moral values....a man that called himself a "christian" when he is an adultery that have 5 children with 3 wives and openly cheated of the first 2...really ? A man that:

  • never been elected nor appointed to any public office at the local state of federal level and has never been in the military 
  • we have no records of public service to review...so he has virtually nothing to show his fitness for office, not even his tax returns---specially his tax returns
  • senate moves to deny him national security briefings due to Russian ties
  • even Michael Bloomberg (republican ex-governor of NY) called him "con-artist" and a "risky reckless and a radical choice"
  • imported immigrant workers by offering visas but says all of them are criminal sexual predators
  • a man that is a TRAITOR because he asked Russia to hack into DNC email servers...whether they have something to hide or not 
  • he got a medical deferment to avoid the Vietnam draft by saying he had "bone spurs in his heels" although he has always played golf and sports...
  • a man that dares to mock a disabled NYT reporter and that even the Pope referred to him as a "non-christian" and also treats women like trash
  • a man that has 4 bankruptcies and racial-bias case against his real state company, anti-discrimination violations against Trump Plaza and also robs american students with a fake university and has had many failed companies like casinos, airliners, beverages, comms companies etc...
  • a man that refers to all Mexicans, Latinos and Muslims as rapists and criminals that are murdering our babies and sleeping with our farm animals... 
  • a man that is such an ignorant that says undocumented immigrants abuse the welfare system when the reality is they cannot qualify for any form of public assistance and that most welfare recipients are minorities when the fact is that most welfare recipients are white people
  • a man that not even republicans want...for example Sen McCain granddaughter, McCain former chief of staff Mark Salter, Former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State and adviser to Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Brent Scowcroft-adviser to three previous Republican Presidents, Alan Steinberg, Regional EPA Administrator under President George W. Bush...among others...
  • a man that promotes hate and discrimination among Americans saying that he will reverse same-sex marriage laws   

Absolutely a moral example to follow. 

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ivanrodz
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August 13, 2016 - 4:17 pm
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greeney2
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August 14, 2016 - 9:14 am
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2 of the 3  of your replies are marked waiting moderation, so I can imagine whats in them, this is very unusual.  Pretty  obvious you are going to disagree with anything I said. The one that was accepted was just more of the Trump trash talk from the left, with untrue and distorted claims.

Try and be this objective when you lecture us about the lies, corruptions, criminal acts of the Clintons.  Plenty of things you can copy and paste, just like the Trump bullshit.

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ivanrodz
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August 14, 2016 - 9:50 am
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Man, you talked just like one of my best buddies...I'm reading your post and when you said "The one that was accepted was just more of the Trump trash talk from the left, with untrue and distorted claims. Try and be this objective when you lecture us about the lies, corruptions, criminal acts of the Clintons" I can see him talking...he's more republican than Bush and Reagan together.

Yes, they're marked as waiting moderation but it's actually one post...the 2nd is a re-post of the 1st. I answered your post about christian values and the foundation of this country. There are posts about some members that have had the same issue and the administrator resolved it. Apparently the post was tagged as spam, I don't know why. Anyway, let's wait until the admin approves it. 

I can say the same thing...it's obvious you're going to disagree with anything I said. I also disagree with many of the republicans in almost all some topics...except one...the gun control. I really don't think we need more gun control and I don't think the government should disarm their citizens. I think that's the only topic I agree with republicans...jejeje. By the way, you did not prove any of the points about Trump wrong. Yes, Clinton has a few skeletons in her closet...I'm aware...and that email scandal..she should have been charged at least with perjury because she lied to the congress but our justice system said otherwise. 

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