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Same sex marriage doesn't sound so ridiculous now?
November 18, 2014
3:34 am
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greeney2
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Beyond belief is the only way to regard this, and in view of this being within Charles Manson's right to do, does Same Sex Marriage even sound the least bit odd anymore? Seriously, if the state of California has to allow this marriage licence how can anyone, in any state, be denied the same thing. This 26 year old girl is as screwy as it comes, and allowed to marry a man that is 80 is nutty enough, but the most notorious mass murderer in this country? Can anyone honestly defend allowing Manson to be married?

CHARLES MANSON ISSUED A MARRIAGE LICENCE!

CORCORAN, Calif. - Mass murderer Charles Manson has been given a license to marry a 26-year-old woman who visits him in prison.

The marriage license, a copy of which was obtained Monday by The Associated Press, was issued Nov. 7 for the 80-year-old Manson and Afton Elaine Burton, who left her Midwestern home nine years ago and moved to Corcoran, Calif. - the site of the prison - to be near the notorious killer. She maintains several websites advocating for Manson's innocence.

The license does not specify a wedding date and indicates the couple has 90 days to get married or they will have to reapply.

Burton, who goes by the name "Star," told the AP that she and Manson will be married next month.

19 PHOTOS
Charles Manson murders 45 years later
"Y'all can know that it's true," she said. "It's going to happen."
"I love him," she added. "I'm with him. There's all kinds of things."

Burton gave an interview a year ago to Rolling Stone magazine in which she said she and Manson planned to marry. But Manson, who became notorious in 1969 as the leader of a roving "family" of young killers, was less certain about tying the knot.

"That's a bunch of garbage," Manson said in the December 2013 interview. "That's trash. We're playing that for public consumption."

Asked Monday about those comments, Burton said, "None of that's true," adding that they're waiting for the prison to complete the paperwork.

California Department of Corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton confirmed to the AP that the license had been transmitted to the prison.

Thornton said each California prison designates an employee to be a marriage coordinator who processes paperwork for an inmate's request to be wed. In most cases, she said, the department of corrections approves of such weddings as "a tool of family reunification and social development." But Manson is a unique case.

19 PHOTOS
The Manson Family murders
Burton said the wedding might have happened earlier if Manson did not have "some situations" at the prison.
Thornton explained that in February, Manson had three violations for possession of a weapon, threatening staff and refusal to provide a urine sample.

Burton said the prison holds marriages on the first Saturday of each month. She expects to be married in an inmate vising room at the prison.

Thornton confirmed that Manson can have a wedding at the prison and invite an official from outside the prison to perform the ceremony.

He and his prospective spouse also would be allowed to invite 10 guests who are not inmates.

However, as a life prisoner with no parole date, he is not entitled to family visits, a euphemism for conjugal visits.

Why marry Manson under those conditions? Burton said it would allow her to get information not available to non-relatives.

""There's certain things next of kin can do," she said.

She said she believes Manson is innocent and will get a new trial.

Manson has been incarcerated since 1969 in the infamous Tate-LaBianca murders. He was a habitual criminal before that and spent most of his life in prison.

He and two women followers, Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkel, remain imprisoned. Another follower, Susan Atkins, died of cancer behind bars.

They were convicted in the gruesome killings of actress Sharon Tate and four others at her estate on Aug. 9, 1969, and grocers Leno and Rosemary LaBianca who were killed the following night.

Manson will not be eligible for parole again until 2027.

December 14, 2014
3:42 pm
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adamwarlock2099
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Well when politicians stop letting the bible weigh in on their law making and decisions on the lives of everyone in this country than maybe they will see homosexual marriage just as legal as heterosexual marriage. But as long as they leave those blinders on all they'll see is what the bible tells them to.

"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski

December 14, 2014
5:46 pm
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greeney2
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Now you open up the real heart of the subject, as to if you believe the Bible is merely all made up, or is there truth to the Bible, is actually the word and Commandments of God? Which part do we follow and which parts to we throw out, and which parts do we just eliminate from the Bible as society just does them anyways. A few of the Ten Commandments are just common place in life, so they do not count any more, like lying, stealing, and adultery? Everybody is doing it so its acceptable now, lets call them the 7 or 8 Commandments?

December 14, 2014
7:37 pm
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adamwarlock2099
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I'm not arguing the validity of the morals of the bible. My folks raised me in a Christian religion and while I don't practiced it anymore many of the morals they taught me from the bible are very much a part of me. But the founding fathers were the ones that instituted seperation of church and state and it's something that's almost completely ignored these days whether it's shoving creation down our children's throat as fact and evolution as evil or the national athem itself or that homosexual marriage is an abomination in the eyes of god. Crimes like murder and stealing are an act that cause harm or distress to others. They are laws but into place for the protection of its citizens. And it's not exclusive to America. Other countries with other belief systems have many similar laws even if the punishment for breaking them is different. Homosexuality, whether condoned of condemned by the bible is irrelevant to the constitutional right for two concenting men or women to have the same legal status of marriage and all the benefits of it that everyone else does if they decide to marry. No one has to accept homosexuality in their moral beliefs but as US citizens they have the same right you do. How is it an advanced intelligent species can stumble over the same prejudice over and over? It's depressing.

"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski

December 14, 2014
10:57 pm
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greeney2
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First we are not an atheist society where religion is null and void, to non existent. We are a nation founded on Christian Judeo principles and teachings. More and more we are becoming a nation where the Atheist minority is dictating what the rest of the country believes, and should live. And we alter the beliefs of the majority, by mandating the rights of the atheist minority should prevail first. They are the ones making mountains out of molehills over the separation of church and state, and their lack of belief of many issues, forcing court rulings in their favor. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. If they had their way, you would see no sign of religion anywhere and Government would be wiped clean of any references to God Whatsoever. They are the ones , making issues in courts from every issue from "God" in the pledge, to the standards of boy scouts, to the World trade center beams being displayed because they stuck out of the ground as a crucifix.

You mention murder and stealing, yes they are crimes, but I was referring to the standards of selling, where every lie on earth is told, so that you should just accept it, as if making lying just normal. Everyone is sleeping with everyone in town, so adultery is not even considered wrong. We had an entire nation saying President Clinton was just a normal man, with the Monica Lewinski scandal, and the President himself oblivious to his own wrongdoings, lying is was not so. So many of the taboos of generations past, are not just considered normal. More and more we are just becoming a Godless society, all in the name of thinking separation of church and state, mean total lack of God's influence in how our country lives and thinks. Court decisions over not allowing the 10 Commandments displayed in a courthouse become separation of church and state, a simple prayer in school, or lets not allow the President to say "God Bless America".

The simple truth is that our laws may reflect what is right and wrong, as legal and illegal. We have this dilemma in many of our laws that include Abortion, the Death Penalty, Euthanasia, and a few other issues, that are conflicts between simple Constitutional interpretation and moral issues driven by religion.

December 15, 2014
8:13 pm
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adamwarlock2099
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No matter if you say it's the atheist and I blame the bible, there's still going to be discord between government and their citizens and between citizens themselves on what they want the government to do and discord between government officials all trying to make their different constituents happy. Our laws will always reflect someone's viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not. Just because 90% of people will agree killing another person is a bad thing, it doesn't stop the 10% that don't. Why do 90% probably agree that killing is wrong? Maybe because of the bible, because of parental upbringing or maybe because it's an moral intricatal to the human race for whatever the reason.

I don't think the reason why or on what the laws we are making are reflected from are as important as the laws and the actions taken to make them laws are. We as a country and always as a species will never stop being different and having different viewpoints about things. While most people will say, and I am one of them, that the 10 commandments are good morals to live by, and to make laws by, to protect the country as a whole, but at some point beyond that, behind closed doors, with consenting adults, your morals over my morals stop. I don't have a good answer as to where that line that is, or as to what we can do to protect each citizen of this country while still letting them have freedom. But I do feel that this particular instance is where it should end for sure. A moral that one holds by, God condemns homosexuality (not homosexuals) just as he does adultery and fornication (not adulterers and fornicators) should never been forced on anyone as a law. Not unless you start restricting legal marriage from repeat offenders of the above. Thereby taking their freedoms away from them for something they obviously don't share the view as you do. But the government doesn't. Why in this one aspect is the bible's view the only valid authority on whether the US as a country should allow homosexual marriage of two people over 18? Why can this 80 year old convicted serial killer get to marry a 19 year old gal, but two adult men can't?

"That's the problem with drinking ... If something bad happens you drink in attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen." -- Charles Bukowski

December 16, 2014
5:50 pm
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greeney2
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"adamwarlock2099" wrote: Why can this 80 year old convicted serial killer get to marry a 19 year old gal, but two adult men can't?

Manson is the ward of the California State, and lost his rights with a life conviction. He lost all rights to the freedoms we all enjoy. I would not even allow him to have visitation from anyone to be honest, he belongs in the maximum security places like Pelican Bay, where they get zero human contact. That girl seems to be a carbon copy of the Manson girls who did these murders along with him. The state should restrict him from any contact with such people.

We are a civilized society, and as a society we define rules and regulations, for things other than defining crimes. The Bible teaches about crime, but also moral and ethical issues. As I said opening, you have decide in your own mind is the Bible the literal words of God, or symbolic in nature, concocted totally by Man with not divine intervention from God. Are the stories in the Bible actual and literal, or are they symbolic? The same sex marriage issue is being put to the test now, in ballet votes, many being overturned by the highest courts in the State as unconstitutional. Any way to slice it, it boils down to a religious view and belief, views of marriage being a Holy Sacrament in the Church as oppose to simply a legal filing void of religion with the government.

December 27, 2014
5:55 pm
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Same sex marriage is still as ridiculous now as it was when this stuff began to those who know what it is...and is not.

And Separation of Church and State is a limit which was intended to be Imposed on government to prevent mischief of government through absolute power..or what is also called in history as "Divine Right of Kings"

"Divine Right of Kings" or Absolute Power is the warning being given to this current sitting president in his constant use/misuse of Executive Orders to skirt the congress and the Constitution of the United States in order to get his private beliefs and expectations come to fruition. Many a leader in this country has stated to this president that "You are not a King."

However..if so few even know any history or even the Biblical connection to this history they would not have any idea what this meant...or entails.

Separation of Church and State was to prevent a private belief system from seizing the reigns of power. If your understanding of right and wrong have been broken by a lack of historical knowledge and including Biblical Knowledge you would not be able to follow this path...or trail of what is happening out here.

Separation of Church and State was a limit on government to prevent royalty from taking the reigns of power.

This is exactly what was decided in the English Civil War and a history mostly avoided and ignored in World history classes next to this historical significance of it to us as Americans.

It is not desired that we know this history...or how it pertains to us as Americans. In this manner we can more easily be lead or more appropriately mislead by leadership trying to remove any Godly religion from our lives and replace it worldly religion and the god of this world. It is obvious once you know the pattern.

Atheists are only a small part of what is happening and they are being used and misused as are most everyone else in what is going on.

However..I agree with Greeny2 in that the modus operandi of what is going on and has been going on is to cause a reversal of everything where minorities can out vote and out power almost everyone else. This is accomplished by a rigged media, rigged education system...working for the body politic to prevent individual knowledge and thinking on the part of most Americans. And this current Administration is a textbook example of what happens when you cater to this template of minority rule...and the chaos it brings. This administration so obviously caters to "Chaos Management" techniques if it brings them more power. They cannot bring unity..because their specialty is division/chaos management.

All you have to do to understand it is ask who is the god of chaos...division..verses unity.

Ordo Ob Chao..........Order from Chaos...

Bring about Chaos such that one can bring in the new planned Order.

Adamwarlock,

A moral that one holds by, God condemns homosexuality (not homosexuals) just as he does adultery and fornication (not adulterers and fornicators) should never been forced on anyone as a law.

The message and clearly from the Bible is that God condems people who define themselves by their sex and sexuality....hetero and homo both. The message is that His people define themselves by the God who lives in them 24/7...not by sex and sexuality.

For defining ones self by sex and sexuality..hetero and homo both ..is exactly what is recorded historically in the heathen nations. And one can find this history both in secular writings and also the Bible is one knows how to find it and then read it for what it is. Secularly one must dig for a lot of this information's because it is not that easily found except for what is in the Bible ..if one knows how to read it.

This is exactly why the instruction of God's people to not do as the nations surrounding them did..for by this these surrounding nations had defiled the land.

This too is not taught to people for the significance that it is.

The truth is that all leadership in this country see is more easily caught up votes by taking advantage of this division.
Putting a minoritiy ahead of the majority in this controversy and keeping the majority bottled up/neutered by a phony media coverage on it.

Almost all current controversy going on in this country is for the purpose of cultivating and stroking a people emotionally for votes at the appropriate election time. If necessary by selling the souls of others to get these votes. This is demonic in nature. To create a permanent Cultivating Chaos and Division for votes.
To create a permanent "Victim Class" capable of defaulting through on any election. And this will wax worse and worse as we approach the next election cycle.

It is easily predictable as all they have is chaos and division..not unity. This has been known from the beginning of this current administration...more than six years ago.

They have used openly or in secret ...anything they can grasp to cause division between the American people and their beliefs...over to their templates.

No one hetero or homo both ..defines who and what they are by their sex and sexuality...for people are so much more than this cheap template. You have to be educated to become this dumb and not notice this template for what it is. Only education can dumb a people down for far and they not notice it for what it is...

For this is exactly the template of the heathen/pagan nations throughout history. And this can be found with enough digging....through the trail of history.

But in public education...all gods are the same god...all religions are the same religion ..so as to put all on the same level and not have people understand the true nature of the history and what is records ..particularly in reference to Absolute Power or "Divine Right of Kings."

This way it is easy to believe or misbelieve that Separation of Church and State was a limit on the people....not a limit on the government. It was always intended as a limit on government...to prevent Absolute Power or " Divine Right of Kings."

Orangetom

December 27, 2014
6:06 pm
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Greeny2,

Everyone is sleeping with everyone in town, so adultery is not even considered wrong. We had an entire nation saying President Clinton was just a normal man, with the Monica Lewinski scandal, and the President himself oblivious to his own wrongdoings, lying is was not so. So many of the taboos of generations past, are not just considered normal. More and more we are just becoming a Godless society, all in the name of thinking separation of church and state, mean total lack of God's influence in how our country lives and thinks. Court decisions over not allowing the 10 Commandments displayed in a courthouse become separation of church and state, a simple prayer in school, or lets not allow the President to say "God Bless America".

This is called. "Mental Reservation."

Mentalus Reservatus..

I first learned of is as being practiced by the Society of Jesus..but come to find out it is also a Talmudic Practice...and used by others...including lawyers.
You mentally think of another question and answer that one in lieu of the question originally asked. This way your conscience is clean.

Talmud..or Talmudic...a set of rules for getting around the rules. In short...a counterfeit technique..without most knowing it is a counterfeit. In substitute for the real thing.

I understood this when Bill Clinton made his now famous reply.....that he had used "Mental Reservation." He is lawyer trained as is his wife.

Orangetom

August 12, 2016
9:54 pm
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ivanrodz
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greeney2 said
First we are not an atheist society where religion is null and void, to non existent. We are a nation founded on Christian Judeo principles and teachings. More and more we are becoming a nation where the Atheist minority is dictating what the rest of the country believes, and should live. And we alter the beliefs of the majority, by mandating the rights of the atheist minority should prevail first. They are the ones making mountains out of molehills over the separation of church and state, and their lack of belief of many issues, forcing court rulings in their favor. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. If they had their way, you would see no sign of religion anywhere and Government would be wiped clean of any references to God Whatsoever. They are the ones , making issues in courts from every issue from "God" in the pledge, to the standards of boy scouts, to the World trade center beams being displayed because they stuck out of the ground as a crucifix.

USA was not founded on Christians values but on the Constitution. People can belief what they want but facts are facts and as long as they live here in USA, the Constitution is the law of the land...not the bible. Haven't we see enough of the brutal and bloody consequences of religious intolerance from other countries, specially in the middle east ? 

How come that atheists are dictating what the rest of the country belief ? I would like to see evidence of that. How come that they are the ones making issues with the separation of church and state ? Conservatives want to trash our founding document by violating the First Amendment in hopes of establishing Christianity as the nation’s religion but that is precisely what the Constitution prohibits.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." 

The Constitution makes zero reference to a god or Christianity except for article VI that says "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States".....and the first amendment. Religion is only discussed in the context of keeping matters of faith separate from concerns of governance, and of keeping religion free from government interference. The founding fathers could not be clearer on this point: God has no role in government; Christianity has no role in government. They make this point explicitly, repeatedly, in multiple founding documents. We are not a Christian nation. 

Another proof is the Treaty of Tripoli...that was ratified unanimously by the U.S. Senate 1797 and signed by president John Adams. Article 11 clearly states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries

Best Regards, 

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