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God Is Imaginary: Try Praying Statistically Analyze Prayer
March 10, 2012
5:23 am
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Proof #1 - Try Praying

How might we prove that God is imaginary? One way would be to find a contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.....tradiction) between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world.

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... rally_true), "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts.

In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIV;]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:
All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless (http://godisimaginary.com/i39.htm) being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.

Image Enlarger
Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.

If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered (http://godisimaginary.com/i9.htm).

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. Yet when we pray, nothing happens (for a complete discussion proving that nothing happens, please see this page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm). What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true. Therefore, one of two things must be happening:

- God is imaginary.
- God does exist, but he never answers prayers. Unfortunately, God is defined by the Bible to be a prayer-answering being. The contradiction between the reality of God and the definition of God proves that God is imaginary.

In fact, we have ample scientific evidence to demonstrate that the belief in prayer is nothing but pure superstition, as shown in the next proof...http://godisimaginary.com/i2.htm

Understanding the Rationalizations:

A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate cancer is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible?

If Jesus is God, and if God is perfect, why aren't all of Jesus's verses about prayer true? Was Jesus exagerating? Was he fibbing? If Jesus is perfect, why wouldn't he speak the truth? Why doesn't a prayer to cure cancer worldwide tomorrow work?

Believers have many different ways to explain why all these verses in the Bible do not work, even if you are praying sincerely, unselfishly and non-materialistically, and even if the answer to your prayer would help millions of people and glorify God in the process. They will say things like this:

"You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..."

or:

"When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..."

or:

God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... [ref: http://www.torahbytes.org/63-45.htm]

The primary problem with these rationalizations is that they miss the point. The fact is that God never answers any prayers, as discussed here (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm).

Going one step further, the problem is that all of these rationalizations miss two other important points:

1. God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being.
2. The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you.

If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.

Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

April 8, 2012
3:54 am
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event_horizon wrote:
Then what "caused" Muslims to run planes into the Twin Towers?

I don't believe it was muslims , at least not for religious purposes. They may have been used as a decoy, and set up to do it, but something far more sinister was behind 911, in my honest opinion.

April 12, 2012
2:33 am
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"event_horizon" wrote: Proof #1 - Try Praying

How might we prove that God is imaginary? One way would be to find a contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.....tradiction) between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world.

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... rally_true), "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts.

In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NIV;]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:
All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:
For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless (http://godisimaginary.com/i39.htm) being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.

Image Enlarger
Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.

If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered (http://godisimaginary.com/i9.htm).

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. Yet when we pray, nothing happens (for a complete discussion proving that nothing happens, please see this page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm). What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true. Therefore, one of two things must be happening:

- God is imaginary.
- God does exist, but he never answers prayers. Unfortunately, God is defined by the Bible to be a prayer-answering being. The contradiction between the reality of God and the definition of God proves that God is imaginary.

In fact, we have ample scientific evidence to demonstrate that the belief in prayer is nothing but pure superstition, as shown in the next proof...http://godisimaginary.com/i2.htm

Understanding the Rationalizations:

A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate cancer is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible?

If Jesus is God, and if God is perfect, why aren't all of Jesus's verses about prayer true? Was Jesus exagerating? Was he fibbing? If Jesus is perfect, why wouldn't he speak the truth? Why doesn't a prayer to cure cancer worldwide tomorrow work?

Believers have many different ways to explain why all these verses in the Bible do not work, even if you are praying sincerely, unselfishly and non-materialistically, and even if the answer to your prayer would help millions of people and glorify God in the process. They will say things like this:

"You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..."

or:

"When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..."

or:

God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... [ref: http://www.torahbytes.org/63-45.htm]

The primary problem with these rationalizations is that they miss the point. The fact is that God never answers any prayers, as discussed here (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/important.htm).

Going one step further, the problem is that all of these rationalizations miss two other important points:

1. God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being.
2. The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you.

If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.

Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.

God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not. Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary? Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.

April 12, 2012
2:43 am
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Sleepwalk wrote:
God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not. Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary? Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.

That was beautiful.

Thank you.

I needed to read something of that nature today.

April 12, 2012
3:03 am
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If it's impossible to prove a negative why does EH keep trying?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 14, 2012
4:34 am
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"Sleepwalk" wrote: God isn't a genie.

It isn't anyone who asks who will receive. Do you think if Satan himself asked God for unlimited power, then God would grant him his wish? Obviously not.

If "God" has "unlimited power," then why does "He" allow "Satan" to run rampant on "His" creation?

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Or what about the person who doesn't actually follow God or believe in Him? How can such a person ask something of a being that they don't think exists or who they think is a joke or imaginary?

They simply don't.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the statistical analyzing of prayer.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

April 14, 2012
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"event_horizon" wrote: If "God" has "unlimited power," then why does "He" allow "Satan" to run rampant on "His" creation?

I'm not so sure there is even a literal Satan, or if Satan is just a metaphor for evil.

In any case, God is allowing human beings time to develop morally, intellectually, and spiritually--while leaving room for humans to move either towards or away from Him using their own free will.

God isn't Superman or a genie who flies around all day rescuing kittens from trees and granting people wishes. He's interested in human beings becoming mature, wise, intelligent and good moral agents who will accept His forgiveness, love, and company.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Besides, God is more interested in human beings coming to know, love, and follow Him, not whether or not they're comfortable here on earth. However, a person who knows, is close to, and loves God--the Good--will of course be fulfilled beyond the scope of anything found here on earth: food, sex, entertainment, beauty, money, comedy, etc. Believers will find comfort here on earth spiritually and when their body perishes, God will take them. I think what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7:7 is if you genuinly ask and seek God, then He will make Himself known to you in one way or another--or He'll help you. But that doesn't mean He will make Himself known to you or help you in a way that you'd expect.

"event_horizon" wrote: Not sure what any of this has to do with the statistical analyzing of prayer.

In other words, I don't expect God to grant wishes in the juvenile fashion you're thinking of. Why do you?

April 15, 2012
9:08 pm
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"Sleepwalk" wrote: I'm not so sure there is even a literal Satan, or if Satan is just a metaphor for evil.

According to your previous statement, it sounds every bit literal.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: In any case, God is allowing human beings time to develop morally, intellectually, and spiritually--while leaving room for humans to move either towards or away from Him using their own free will.

I don't see anything to "move towards," so I have no movement "towards" or "away."

"Sleepwalk" wrote: God isn't Superman or a genie who flies around all day rescuing kittens from trees and granting people wishes. He's interested in human beings becoming mature, wise, intelligent and good moral agents who will accept His forgiveness, love, and company.

No? What about parting the Red Sea to rescue "His" people from the Egyptians? Your "God" only seems to be "Superman or a genie" during times when no recording devices were available.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: In other words, I don't expect God to grant wishes in the juvenile fashion you're thinking of. Why do you?

I have no idea what gave that impression. I didn't mention anything about a "fashion" of prayer, juvenile or otherwise. This is about prayer in general.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

April 16, 2012
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"event_horizon" wrote: According to your previous statement, it sounds every bit literal.

I was making a point. God is answering prayers, but He's not going to answer everyone's prayers.

I don't see anything to "move towards," so I have no movement "towards" or "away."

Blind men can't see the world around them either. I guess that means the world doesn't exist.

No? What about parting the Red Sea to rescue "His" people from the Egyptians?

Moses parted the red sea.

But God helped Moses in order to ultimately pave the way towards salvation and higher enlightenment. That goal has been fulfilled and now it's up to us to take God's hand.

Your "God" only seems to be "Superman or a genie" during times when no recording devices were available.

Then how do you know about it?

"Sleepwalk" wrote: In other words, I don't expect God to grant wishes in the juvenile fashion you're thinking of. Why do you?

I didn't mention anything about a "fashion" of prayer, juvenile or otherwise. This is about prayer in general.

You just seem to have a really childish view of God, which is probably one of the reasons why you don't believe in God.

I wouldn't believe in God either if I thought He were a genie in the sky that granted every person's wish.

April 17, 2012
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"Sleepwalk" wrote: Blind men can't see the world around them either. I guess that means the world doesn't exist.

Retarded people can't distinguish the difference between reality and fiction -- that doesn't mean fiction is real.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Moses parted the red sea.

But God helped Moses in order to ultimately pave the way towards salvation and higher enlightenment. That goal has been fulfilled and now it's up to us to take God's hand.

It's still a contradiction to your statement that "God isn't Superman or a genie." And at the same time you believe in talking snakes; talking burning bushes; a man surviving in the belly of a whale for 3 days; a single man that can build a wooden boat that can house and support millions of animals, never mind the complications of trying to round them all up. Sounds like a genie at work to me. Also sounds like a bunch of children's fairy tales.

And here you speak to me about being "juvenile" and having a "childish view?" :eh:

"Sleepwalk" wrote: Then how do you know about it?

From your book of fairy tales of course.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: You just seem to have a really childish view of God, which is probably one of the reasons why you don't believe in God.

Again, I have no idea what gave you that impression. You'll have to elaborate on exactly what gave you that impression.

"Sleepwalk" wrote: I wouldn't believe in God either if I thought He were a genie in the sky that granted every person's wish.

Nope, not every person's "wish," but...according to your Bible, any person that truly believes in your "God" and prays is supposed to have their prayers answered:

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Matthew 21:21
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Mark 11:24
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

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