God is Imaginary: Ponder God's Plan (Proof #6) | Religion Spirituality | Forum

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
God is Imaginary: Ponder God's Plan (Proof #6)
June 8, 2010
9:59 pm
Avatar
event_horizon
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1628
Member Since:
April 22, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"God's plan" is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.

You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example, if we look in the book 'A Purpose Driven Life' by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:

Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139]

There is also this:

Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.

Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.

Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God has pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.

If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not? What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.

If God does not intend for us to perform abortions, is Rick Warren then wrong that God has a plan? If God has a plan, is he not the direct cause of every abortion? Simply think it through, and you will begin to see the problems in Rick's proposition.

Think about Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hitler is part of God's Plan." Think about what Rick said:

He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139]

Rick also says:

God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.

If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.

Now let's imagine that you say a prayer in this sort of universe. What difference does it make? God has his plan, and that plan is running down its track like a freight train. If God has a plan, then everyone who died in the Holocaust died for a reason. They had to die, and each death had meaning. Therefore, Holocaust victims could pray all day, and they would still die. The idea of a "plan" makes the idea of a "prayer-answering relationship with God" a contradiction, doesn't it? Yet Christians seem to attach themselves to both ideas, despite the irresolvable problem the two ideas create.

Think about what God's plan means for you personally. If the plan happens to say that you will get hit by a bus tomorrow, or that terrorists will blow you up, or that you will be shot in the head four times, then that's what will happen. It would be the same with any disease. If you contract cancer this afternoon and die three months later, that is God's plan for you. Praying to cure the cancer is a waste. God plans for you to die, so you will die. He has pre-programmed the exact time of your death. There is nothing you can do to change the plan -- no amount of prayer will help -- because your death will have meaning and your death will cause side-effects that are also part of the plan.

Who will you marry? You actually have no choice in the matter. God has pre-planned your wedding in minute detail. Rick Warren says, "God knew that those two individuals [your parents] possessed exactly the right genetic makeup to create the custom 'you' that he had in mind. They had the DNA God wanted to make you." Therefore, your spouse was pre-chosen by God for you so that you would create the children who are a part of his plan. You also have no choice in the number of children you will have -- God has pre-planned their births.

In addition, this sort of universe means that Hitler is blameless. Hitler was not "evil," because Hitler had no free will at all. Hitler was simply an actor forced to play his role in God's plan. God planned for millions of people to die in the Holocaust -- he planned their deaths in exact detail according to Rick Warren. Hitler had to kill those people. Hitler was God's puppet in making that those millions of deaths happen right on schedule.

In the same way then, every murderer is blameless. Since God has planned each of our deaths in exact detail, murderers are actually essential to God's plan. Why do we punish them? We should be rewarding them for doing their God-planned duty. What if you get raped tomorrow and get pregnant? God did that because he planned the exact time of that child's birth and death. God actually pre-planned your rape, and the rapist was God's puppet. Rather than hating the rapist, we should celebrate God's plan.

Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hitler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."

If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.

http://godisimaginary.com/i6.htm

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

June 9, 2010
5:30 pm
Avatar
qmark
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1110
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Romans 8
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

June 9, 2010
6:39 pm
Avatar
sandra
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3858
Member Since:
December 4, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh yeah, you wouldn't have the slightest clue the power of Jesus's imagination.
You should first learn something about imagination event, that might help you out a bit, or atleast help you look less foolish.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

June 9, 2010
7:00 pm
Avatar
qmark
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1110
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

sandra, where you been?

June 9, 2010
7:13 pm
Avatar
greeney2
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 10245
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust?

Hitler was one of you, an Atheist! Don't get me wrong, I don't think all Atheists, would think of doing what Hitler did or even harm someone else, but only an Atheist would have done what Hitler did to millions.

June 9, 2010
7:53 pm
Avatar
humphreys
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2149
Member Since:
August 21, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"greeney2" wrote:

Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust?

Hitler was one of you, an Atheist! Don't get me wrong, I don't think all Atheists, would think of doing what Hitler did or even harm someone else, but only an Atheist would have done what Hitler did to millions.

As far as Hitler goes, what his religion was is irrelevant. The problem there was faulty reasoning, bad ideas, the inability to think critically and fairly, faith, and cult-like group thinking driven by fear. These are issues atheists can have, that's why I prefer to stress that critical thinking and skepticism is more important than actual beliefs. But, these also just so happen to be problems that are especially common in religious people, and as far as the more hardcore Chrstians go, I've yet to meet a single one who didn't have these flawed thought processes in abundance.

In my experience, being an atheist does not make you a rational thinker, but being a rational thinker certainly tends to lead one to atheism, or, at least, a rejection of the mainstream religions.

As for your claim that no religious man could do what Hitler did, well, that's just BS. There has been more killing in God's name that in any other cause.

Have you even read the Bible, or, in fact, any history book?

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

June 9, 2010
7:56 pm
Avatar
humphreys
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2149
Member Since:
August 21, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh, and let's not forget the role Christianity played in the general hatred of the Jews around the world. If you think Christianity did not have a part to play in the holocaust, you are sorely mistaken.

You might find this interesting, greeney:

http://www.evilbible.com/hitle.....istian.htm

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Whether you would agree that Hitler was actually a Christian or not, it is very clear that he was a religious, faith-based, irrational type thinker. He was most certainly a man of very strong faith. The very opposite of what critical thinking and skepticism is all about.

"All of our behavior can be traced to biological events about which we have no conscious knowledge: this has always suggested that free will is an illusion."

- Sam Harris

June 9, 2010
10:36 pm
Avatar
qmark
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1110
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"humphreys" wrote:
Whether you would agree that Hitler was actually a Christian or not, it is very clear that he was a religious, faith-based, irrational type thinker. He was most certainly a man of very strong faith. The very opposite of what critical thinking and skepticism is all about.

Critical thinking doesn't always lead to positive outcomes does it? Obviously he was not a Christian, but his thinking was clear and rational in his decision to use Christianity and religion to further his un-Christian utopian agenda. I don't believe it was faith-based at all, nor do I believe he was a man of faith in the traditional sense. Politicians are using Christianity and religion today for their own agendas, fortunately that agenda does not include mass genicide. The bottom line is, he was all about manipulating the masses and using whatever means that were available, including religion.

June 10, 2010
1:44 am
Avatar
event_horizon
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1628
Member Since:
April 22, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"qmark" wrote: Romans 8
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

More like "all things working together" for an evil/sadistic being to get "his" jollies off, watching all the murder and mayhem.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

June 10, 2010
1:46 am
Avatar
event_horizon
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1628
Member Since:
April 22, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"sandra" wrote: Oh yeah, you wouldn't have the slightest clue the power of Jesus's imagination.
You should first learn something about imagination event, that might help you out a bit, or atleast help you look less foolish.

Wow, what a silly comment. You should probably learn the difference between imagination and reality.

I don't believe what I believe because it's what I desire to believe. I believe what I believe because it's what science, evidence, and logic causes me to believe.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 288

Currently Online:
74 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

greeney2: 10245

bionic: 9870

Lashmar: 5289

tigger: 4576

rath: 4297

DIss0n80r: 4161

sandra: 3858

frrostedman: 3815

Wing-Zero: 3278

Tairaa: 2842

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 24227

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 31

Topics: 8750

Posts: 123584

Newest Members:

kitty, linkon old, ielts balle, Harrison Pike, Scully11, [email protected], Aaron Breuer, Kjel, Kyle, White Buffalo

Administrators: John Greenewald: 592, blackvault: 1776