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Does following Jesus mean following Paul?
June 16, 2011
4:15 am
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at1with0
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I know Jesus knew Paul...I am just fascinated that they never met in the flesh yet Paul is sometimes considered the founder of Christianity.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 16, 2011
6:18 am
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frrostedman
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"at1with0" wrote: I know Jesus knew Paul...I am just fascinated that they never met in the flesh yet Paul is sometimes considered the founder of Christianity.

Well in all seriousness, if Christianity is following Christ's teachings, then... it would make the most sense to say Christ is the founder of Christianity.

Paul explained the mysteries, put it in layman's terms for us, and established the doctrine of justification by faith (based on his interpretations of what already occurred). The idea is Jesus taught Paul Himself, in Spirit form.

It's easy for the skeptic or layperson to suggest that "Pauline Christianity" can't be trusted because it all depends on the unproven claims of one guy.

And I think the disciples would have agreed, if it weren't for the miraculous event which Luke witnessed on the road to Damascus, combined with other miracles that surrounded Paul afterward including a resurrection he performed.

If Paul just made a claim and had no miracles to substantiate it, I think he would have been sumarily blown off and ostricized by the established Christian community.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

June 16, 2011
6:39 am
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at1with0
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For me, the miracles don't substantiate anything. The proof and wisdom is in the works and writings.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 16, 2011
7:59 am
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bionic
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Christinaity is an amalgam..it is a cake..that came from a recipe, using various ingredients..a recipe that seems to get perosnalized and updated as time and tastes change (like anything, any idea, really)

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

June 16, 2011
4:36 pm
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"qmark" wrote: [quote="at1with0"]I was under the impression that Paul saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. My understanding is that the two never met in the flesh.

Well, it was more than just a vision since Saul/Paul was physically blinded by the light from Heaven and those who were with him heard Jesus' voice. But, the point I was trying to make was Jesus knew him. How could He not?

It was on his mission to Damascus that Paul encounter his vision. It was a bright light that blinded him.
He did not see Jesus, Paul claims that a voice came from the bright light and said Why dost thou persecute me and attributed the words coming from Jesus.
This was way after the resurrection.
A Nazarene Jew named Ananias cured Paul blindness and converted him to the Nazarene sect which in fact was the first Jewish Jesus Sect.

The fact is that it does not matter if this was a a historical illusion or a real encounter. It is the reality of faith that created history.
11 years later when another Nazarene disciple called Barnabas invited Paul on a journey, this is when that the future of Christianity shaped itself in Paul's mind.

Paul took three decisions.

1. Since Jews did not rushed en mass to get into this new Nazarene sect he decided to take the faith to the Pagans.
2. To make the Pagans more comfortable into accepting this new Nazarene sect he abandoned circumcision and dietary laws.
3. He also in fact substituted Jesus for the Torah a most crucial concept which caused a break between Judaism ( the father religion ) with Christianity ( the Son religion).

One must remember that Paul was a Jew by birth, a Roman citizen and a product of Greek culture.

The apostles founded the Apostolic Church 40 days after Jesus' death.
It was an apostolic group of around 120 souls who multiplied to 8 thousands within a decade.
During the first 3 decades this Jewish Jesus sect was known as the Nazarenes which were very Orthodox Jews, while their Christianity differed less than Phariseeism than for example Catholicism does today from Protestantism.
The first 15 bishops of Jerusalem in this new Jewish Jesus sect were circumcised and united the law of Moses with the doctrine of Jesus.

Do not forget that the early Apostolic Church did not posses the 4 Gospels, nor the Epistles of Paul, because they had not be written yet.

Please note that Peter was the head of the Apostolic Church from 30 to 50 AD
James the brother of Jesus was the head of the Apostolic Church around 50 AD

At this time James and Paul had a stormy debate where a compromised was reached in Jerusalem.
James converted only Jews while on the same missionary road Paul converted the Gentiles.
One could question if James really understood Paul's views. Because the later changed James brother Jesus from a messiah rabbi into the Christ.
One can also question a fact that Paul invented Christianity and perverted the true religion of Jesus

June 16, 2011
9:37 pm
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at1with0
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I'm interested in this vision Paul had that blinded him. How did he know it was Jesus?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 16, 2011
10:01 pm
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frrostedman
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"at1with0" wrote: I'm interested in this vision Paul had that blinded him. How did he know it was Jesus?

Acts 9:3 - 9

3Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

June 16, 2011
10:14 pm
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote: I'm interested in this vision Paul had that blinded him. How did he know it was Jesus?

Because afterwards he could see nothing else but the life of Christ. Laugh
What kind of blinding experience did Paul truly have from his vision?
He couldn't control what he seen afterwards and Paul knew his own strength,
Paul was chosen and everything in him continued to grow with the will of God
according to Gods will.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

June 16, 2011
10:19 pm
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frrostedman
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"bionic" wrote: Christinaity is an amalgam..it is a cake..that came from a recipe, using various ingredients..a recipe that seems to get perosnalized and updated as time and tastes change (like anything, any idea, really)

I'm doing low carb. So I'll take the fish... but no bread. Sorry.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

June 16, 2011
10:27 pm
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sandra
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Christ went out on a limb an abducted Paul. 😯
Through time, Paul minded less.
And alot got done in his life. Paul even then knew
so much more than he could say because of what others would
understand and what they would not. And even from what
was said, look, people still have a very hard time understanding
Paul. Number one reason: The life god gave him was
an abundance, the power god gave him was an abundance,
everything was in abundance for Paul. More so than others.
Paul was a giver of the givers.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

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