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Does following Jesus mean following Paul?
April 27, 2011
4:17 pm
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at1with0
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Maybe Paul was faking faking it. :Doh:

"it is easy to grow crazy"

April 27, 2011
6:43 pm
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tichan wrote,

Paul Versus James and Jesus teachings

negative on this..

Paul was disconnecting himself from Judaism and the first Christian Jerusalem church headed by James Jesus' brother while adhering to resurrected gods and Gnostic myths of heaven-descended redeemers that existed in the past. Such as Mirtha etc.

Negative on this too. This is for certain because Paul ,among any of the educated Apostles, knew that the Hebrews themselves and their leadership were already and privily/secretly incorporating many of the pagan practices ...into the Hebrew/Judaic religion. They were already and for some time back ..secretly switching gods to the Pagan gods without most of the Jews/Hebrews even being aware that this was being done. Jesus for certain knew this ...because he called them .."of their father the devil..a liar from the beginning."

This privy switch of gods and rituals is the basis of the Gnostic/Eastern religious practices.
Those who know what it means to travel to the East. This is not Christian.

Judaism could not tolerate the heretical Christian church which had embraced Greek religious notions and this brought in by Paul.

Judaism most certainly could not tolerate the Christian Church because the Christian knowledge and doctrine would put light on the abominations the Hebrews/Jews were doing to themselves by privily and secretly switching away from the Law of Moses and overlaying the new laws and practices as if they were the Law of Moses when they were no such thing. Paul, like Jesus, would have known this as Paul of all the Apostles was extremely well versed and knowledgeable in the Olde Testament. Hence Paul was the perfect man to become the Apostle to the Gentiles.
They hated Paul for the same reason they hated Jesus. Paul, like Jesus, was a threat to the scam the Hebrew/Jewish leadership were running on their own peoples. They are still today running this scam and many Christian Churches have bought into it...and for the same reason..lucre.

Christianity is a combination of Hellenistic Greek religious motifs with Jewish concepts.
Paul is the real founder of Christianity and the great interpreter of Jesus' mission, brought forth in a way that Jesus himself never did. It was only Paul ideas of how Jesus' life and death fitted into a cosmic scheme of salvation from the creation of Adam to the end of times.

Negative...not Hellenistic...Rome is Hellenistic. Christianity is of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins. All Paul did was to bring the Gospel to the outer most parts of the world after the Gospel...Good News ..was first brought to the Hebrews.
Alexandria was Hellenistic/Gnostic. This is not Christian..but only Hellenistic Gnostic Pharisee ism as is Rome..even today. Which Pharisee ism would you prefer..Judaic Phariseeism or Hellenistic Pharisee ism/Roman?? Not much difference when you know enough to peel back the veneer.

Paul is important because he ..unlike most of the other Apostles was to go on to teach us much of what was intended by the Knowledge of the Olde Testament...where the change took place with the death of the Testator. Particularly what is known by those well schooled and tutored in the Word..is that the Children of the Bond woman shall not be heir with the Children of the Free woman. That the Jerusalem which now is..is in bondage with her children. Those under Olde Testament Law are in bondage with their children.
Believers are not under OLde Testament Bondage.

For those in the Know...all attempts at Gnostic Wise men today...ie..Politicians and leaders ..is to build a world utopia...Eden and put the children of the bondwoman to be heir with the children of the free woman. This is what gnostic thinking in politics is about and being done privily .hidden ..concealed...esoteric. Under the guise of Politics and public education. And most peoples out here haven't a clue this is happening. For we still have Pharisees today. We just call many of them Politicians..but they are steeped in a definite religion.

Immediate after Jesus' death and the resurection, the leader of the Jerusalem Church is Jesus' brother James.

In the Gospels, this James does not appear at all as having anything to do with Jesus' mission and his story.

And to ensure this, Jesus' brother James (and his other brothers) are erase from any significant role in the Gospel story. This was a plan to denigrate the early leaders who had been in close contact with Jesus.
Paul had never met Jesus in person.
Paul's doctrine of Jesus is a daring departure from Judaism and the real teachings of Jesus.

The Gospel stories are four facets of the Ministry of Jesus..They show Jesus in four distinct categories.

.Matthew ...Christ the King..with a Kingly lineage from David.

Mark...Christ the servant...no lineage here ...servants do not show lineages.

Luke ...Christ the man..lineage from Adam here.

John ..Christ the High Priest...lineage from John the Baptist in the River Jordan where
Jesus took on His Ministry/Priesthood

There is more to the Christian churches/history than James and the Jerusalem Church.

And with the New Testament ...the Church was not of Judaism It was of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins. To many people try to equate the New Testament Church with Judaism. Not so. For we are not under that bondage.

The truth is that the Old Testament does not portray Hell or the Underworld (called Sheol in Hebrew) as a fiery place.
There is no mention of a Lake of Fire, or of individuals being bound and tormented (punishments) in the Underworld.

It is quite clear that the Hebrews themselves were turning their God Given kingdom into hell on earth and were doing this from the time they came out of Egypt unto 70 A.D. when it really turned into hell on earth for them resulting in their diaspora.
They are still doing this today and once again they are going to find out about hell on earth as are many of us.
For under man's gnostic wise men teaching/education systems..many places on earth have turned into hell. Just follow the trail of Karl Marx unto today and it will become clear.
By the way...Karl Marx and what came of his teachings is the extreme end of Gnostic/Wise men systems. The religions of the East.

Paul and the early christians of the gentile church of Paul apparently drew upon Greek myths about the Judgement, punishment and resurrection of the dead after a thousand years, as preserved in Plato's writings and many others.

Negative. In the Word..the term thousand is a word which means..."all." It does not mean what most peoples tend to translate.

Plato is the source for the wisdom of this world...the occult sources. Platonic philosophical systems. God would not have Believers look here.

One thing is clear from the Olde Testament unto the New Testament ..God's people were not to do as the nations around them did. They were to separate from these Heathen customs and practices. Why would God be pleased to see that His peoples had incorporated Heathen customs and practices into the Faith He had given them?? And the Greeks were Heathens/Pagans.
What you are posting here does not make good nonsense to those who know.

But it makes perfect sense to one who looks to the East for their wisdom and knowledge.
Your position here is the same as the Pharisees ...attempting to incorporate Heathen practices over the Law of Moses and Christianity both as if they are the same thing when they so obviously are not.

I don't travel to the East ..up seven steps...but I know what it is ..all the way back to the Garden of Eden.

From the Olde Testament unto the New Testament...the children of the bond woman ..shall not be heir ..with the children of the free woman. From the Olde Testament in Genesis unto the New Testament in Galatians Chapter 4.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

June 15, 2011
1:36 pm
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"at1with0" wrote: http://www.interfaithforums.co.....-paul.html

I had never heard of such a difference...

Thought you might be interested.

Christianity is a combination of Hellenistic Greek religious motifs with Jewish concepts. Paul is the real founder of Christianity

At the beginning of Christianity Jesus and Paul are regarded by Christians as the founder of their religion.
But Paul is regarded as the great interpreter of Jesus' mission, who explained, in a way that Jesus himself never did, how Jesus' life and death fitted into a cosmic scheme of salvation, stretching from the creation of Adam to the end of time.

Jesus never knew Paul and they never once met. The disciples who knew Jesus best, such as Peter, James and John, have left no writings behind them explaining how Jesus seemed to them or what they considered his mission to have been.

Paul claimed that his interpretations came by personal acquaintance with the resurrected Jesus, even though he had never met him during his lifetime through vision.

We know about Paul from his own letters and the book of Acts, which gives a full account of his life. In fact, he is the hero of Acts, which was written by an admirer and follower of his, named, and this Luke who was also the author of the Gospel of that name. Luke was not an immediate apostle of Jesus during Jesus lifetime and he had never met Jesus

Immediate after Jesus' death that the leader of the Jerusalem Church is Jesus' brother James. Yet in the Gospels, this James does not appear at all as having anything to do with Jesus' mission and his story.

And this to ensure and erase Jesus' brother dames (and his other brothers) from any significant role in the Gospel story.
A plan to denigrate the early leaders who had been in close contact with Jesus.

Those who were immediate close to Jesus regarded with great suspicion and dismay the Christological theories of Paul, flaunting his brand new visions in interpretation of the Jesus whom he had never met in the flesh.

From certain of Paul's letters, particularly Galatians, it seems that the friction was more serious than in the picture given in Acts.
What would Jesus think of Paul

Paul's doctrine of Jesus is a daring departure from Judaism.

Paul was advocating a doctrine that seemed more in common with pagan myths than with Judaism: that Jesus was a divine-human person who had descended to Earth from the heavens and experienced death for the express purpose of saving mankind.

The Jews found this doctrine new and shocking and played no role in Jewish scripture.
Paul said that not only this doctrine doctrine was new bu added that that every line of the Jewish scripture was a foreshadowing of the Jesus-event as he understood it.

And those who understood the scripture in any other way were failing in comprehension of what Judaism had always been about.

Paul regarded much of the Old Testament as obsolete, superseded by the advent of Jesus.

So Paul was disconnecting himself with Judaism and the first Christian Jerusalem church headed by James Jesus' brother while adhering to resurrected gods and Gnostic myths of heaven-descended redeemers that existed in the past.

Paul's writings and those of the Early Apostles, reveal how Greek motifs were given "a new twist" and adapted to the story of Christ. As more Gentile converts flooded into the Early Christian church, they brought with them Greek religious notions which were re-formatted into a Christian "Gospel".

The original Jewish element represented by James (Christ's brother) and Jesus himself , eventually was replaced by Paul's Gentile church.
Judaism could not tolerate the heretical Christian church which had embraced Greek religious notions.

June 15, 2011
4:24 pm
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bionic
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an there you have it
😎

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

June 15, 2011
5:07 pm
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at1with0
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Thanks, tichan..always good to see another perspective.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 15, 2011
5:19 pm
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DIss0n80r
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"at1with0" wrote: Thanks, tichan..always good to see another perspective.

Are you following Jesus or stalking Him? 😮

"I can conceive of nothing in religion, science, or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." ~ Charles Fort

June 15, 2011
5:35 pm
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at1with0
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"DIss0n80r" wrote: [quote="at1with0"]Thanks, tichan..always good to see another perspective.

Are you following Jesus or stalking Him? 😮

No, you got it all wrong. He's coming for me. 😎
Or...not.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 16, 2011
3:00 am
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"tichan" wrote:
Jesus never knew Paul and they never once met. The disciples who knew Jesus best, such as Peter, James and John, have left no writings behind them explaining how Jesus seemed to them or what they considered his mission to have been.

Hmmm. Jesus, God in the flesh, didn't know somebody. I guess Paul just popped in there without God knowing anything about it. Interesting! I guess Peter didn't write 1st Peter (there is some question about 2nd Peter) and John didn't write any of the books named after him even though most scholars unanamously agree he did. Putting that aside, I assume you are just dismissing outright where Paul encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus. Double Hmmmm.

June 16, 2011
3:14 am
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at1with0
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I was under the impression that Paul saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. My understanding is that the two never met in the flesh.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

June 16, 2011
4:02 am
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"at1with0" wrote: I was under the impression that Paul saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. My understanding is that the two never met in the flesh.

Well, it was more than just a vision since Saul/Paul was physically blinded by the light from Heaven and those who were with him heard Jesus' voice. But, the point I was trying to make was Jesus knew him. How could He not?

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