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Beyond Reason?
December 9, 2010
7:45 am
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frrostedman
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emphasis added for reasons certain people should understand

Beyond Reason?

Although science with all of its power cannot address some of the fundamental questions that we ask, nevertheless the universe contains certain clues as to our relationship to it, clues that are scientifically accessible. The rational intelligibility of the universe, for instance, points to the existence of a Mind that was responsible both for the universe and for our minds. It is for this reason that we are able to do science and to discover the beautiful mathematical structures that underlie the phenomena we can observe. Not only that, but our increasing insight into the fine-tuning of the universe in general, and of planet earth in particular, is consistent with the widespread awareness that we are meant to be here. This earth is our home.

But if there is a Mind behind the universe, and if that Mind intends us to be here, the really big question is: What is the purpose of our existence? It is this question above all that exercises the human heart. Scientific analysis of the universe cannot give us the answer. But true science is not embarrassed by its inability at this point — it simply recognizes that it is not equipped to answer such questions. Therefore, it would be a serious logical error in methodology to look only within the ingredients of the universe — its material, structures, and processes — to find out what its purpose is and why we are here. The ultimate answer, if there is one, will have to come from outside the universe.

But how shall we find this out? I have spent much time over the years arguing that there is evidence of a Mind behind the universe, a Mind that intended us to be here. We too have minds. It is, therefore, not illogical that one of the major reasons why we have been given minds is not only that we should be able to explore our fascinating universe home but also that we should be able to understand the Mind that has given us the home.

Long before Aristotle, the book of Genesis was penned. It starts with the words: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This statement stands in complete contrast with the other mythical cosmogonies of the time — like the Babylonian, in which the gods were part of the stuff of the universe, and in which the world was made out of a god. Genesis claims that there is a creator God who exists independently of the universe, a claim that is foundational to Christianity. The apostle John puts it this way in his gospel: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men” (John 1:1–4).

In Greek, the term translated “Word” is logos, which was often used by Greek philosophers for the rational principle that governs the universe. Here we have the theological explanation for the rational intelligibility of the universe, for the fine-tuning of its physical constants as well as its biological complexity. It is the product of a Mind, that of the divine Logos. For what lies behind the universe is much more than a rational principle. It is God, the Creator Himself. It is no abstraction, or even impersonal force, that lies behind the universe. God, the Creator, is a person, and He is not part of the stuff of His universe.

Now, if the ultimate reality behind the universe is a personal God, this has far-reaching implications for the human search for truth, since it opens up new possibilities for knowing ultimate reality other than through the (scientific) study of things. For people communicate in a way that things do not. People can reveal themselves in speech and thereby communicate information about themselves that the most sophisticated scanner applied to their brains could not reveal. Being people ourselves, we can get to know other people. Therefore, the next logical question to ask is: If the Creator is personal, has He spoken directly, as distinct from what we can learn of Him indirectly through the structures of the universe? Has He revealed Himself? For if there is a God, and He has spoken, then what He has said will be of utmost importance in our search for truth. Here we once again encounter the biblical claim that God has spoken in the most profound and direct way possible. He, the Word who is a person, has become human, to demonstrate fully that the ultimate truth behind the universe is personal. “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth” (v. 14).

This statement is highly specific. It asserts that at a certain time and place, God the Creator encoded Himself in humanity. It is, of course, a staggering claim to supernatural activity of the highest order. Yet, science has not and cannot eliminate the supernatural.

I submit that, far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point toward His existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by His existence. Inevitably, of course, not only those of us who do science but all of us have to choose the presuppositions with which we start. There are not many options — essentially, just two. Either human intelligence ultimately owes its origin to mindless matter or there is a Creator. It is strange that some people claim that it is their intelligence that leads them to prefer the first to the second.

- John C Lennox, Professor of Mathematics and Philosophy of Science, Oxford University

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 9, 2010
9:44 pm
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at1with0
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Suppose we had the technology to make a man-made machine sentient. A likely candidate is a computer. Another candidate is a hybrid chemical-biological-electronic-mechanical machine.

Where is the sentience? What is the source of the sentience?

Mind is an abstract thing when compared to the brain although many would say mind is biological/physical. I believe it is as non-physical as a perfect circle.

The man-made machine runs software; the hardware just makes running the software possible. The brain just makes running the software (possibly as coded in our DNA) possible.

But what is software really? It is what tells the hardware what to do, and it interprets and uses internal processes in the hardware.

Software is a set of WORDS.

What are words, then? First, a distinction between symbols and what those symbols point to. Words are written and spoken (and gestured like a nod): those are the symbols. Words are what the symbols point to which is in "the land of meaning." The symbols in a word trigger a certain mapping to its meaning(s). Written words are triggers.

What the symbols "mind" point to is what is called Mind.

The source of the sentience is the software. The hardware, as stated previously, just enables the software to run properly.

The source of sentience (Mind) is the software. The source of sentience is in WORDS. The source of sentience is within "the land of meaning."

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Logic as the rational principle that governs the universe. I agree this is possible, and almost a foregone conclusion, yet Aristotle's breed of logic probably isn't the rational principle that governs the universe. I like that definition. People are trying to find which logic this is. Which WORDS describe the true logic of the universe?

Words in the shape of symbols in the shape of thoughts, I used to say.

I've been trying to work on what the underlying structure of reality is. My document had a couple of flaws so I pulled it off the net but basically this is something I've been thinking about.

I've posted this video in the "my answer" thread in the Questions section, and it is another TOE-oriented discussion: The theme of late is centered around the question of what the underlying structure of reality is, if any.

And if you like that one, here is another (kinda related)

One could say this is a metaphor for finding the code that connects the human mind with Mind.

In the "my answer" thread, I explore some options of this code, which I call "my answer" and it is also called a TOE (theory of everything). This code is the complete description of reality.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 10, 2010
7:43 am
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frrostedman
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Very generally speaking--and I am going to visit your "My Answer" thread within the next day or so just not right now--I don't think it's possible for the subjects within the reality to know what exactly lies outside of it.

And like the Professor states above, the "answer" lies outside the universe.

Is it possible for a fish to even imagine, let alone actually discover, what reality is like outside its fish bowl? It might catch a glimpse if it jumps out of the bowl, but then it dies. That's ironically what happens with us, if NDE's have any validity to them. We get a short, hardly describable glimpse into the realm outside our reality--as we are dying or are clinically dead.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 11, 2010
3:01 am
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at1with0
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Is there anything outside reality?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 13, 2010
7:59 am
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frrostedman
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"at1with0" wrote: Is there anything outside reality?

There can't be... but, does reality have boundaries? How could it?

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 13, 2010
6:59 pm
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at1with0
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The way I define reality, it is all-encompassing...the biggest fish bowl there is.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 14, 2010
6:05 am
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frrostedman
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"at1with0" wrote: The way I define reality, it is all-encompassing...the biggest fish bowl there is.

Like the little buddhist-wannabe kid said to neo...

"There is no fish bowl."

😀

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

December 14, 2010
6:19 am
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote: Suppose we had the technology to make a man-made machine sentient. A likely candidate is a computer. Another candidate is a hybrid chemical-biological-electronic-mechanical machine.

Where is the sentience? What is the source of the sentience?

Mind is an abstract thing when compared to the brain although many would say mind is biological/physical. I believe it is as non-physical as a perfect circle.

The man-made machine runs software; the hardware just makes running the software possible. The brain just makes running the software (possibly as coded in our DNA) possible.

But what is software really? It is what tells the hardware what to do, and it interprets and uses internal processes in the hardware.

Software is a set of WORDS.

What are words, then? First, a distinction between symbols and what those symbols point to. Words are written and spoken (and gestured like a nod): those are the symbols. Words are what the symbols point to which is in "the land of meaning." The symbols in a word trigger a certain mapping to its meaning(s). Written words are triggers.

What the symbols "mind" point to is what is called Mind.

The source of the sentience is the software. The hardware, as stated previously, just enables the software to run properly.

The source of sentience (Mind) is the software. The source of sentience is in WORDS. The source of sentience is within "the land of meaning."

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Written words are definitely triggers. So are spoken words. So are words sung.
Put a ceramic bowl full of sugar or salt or some stuff and place it on a stereo,
with each song of course, stuffs going to arrange differently. However this is not only
done through sound, of course you mention the land of meaning.
Whether we are aware of it or not, when we speak with people, read peoples words, anything
of the nature, see even as we think of them, there are triggers, there are reactions, cause and effects, I suppose much easier to see depending upon what type of ammo we're working with, imagine Christs mind, oh I love Christ, hes got it all. How many connections out there truly disconnect and reconnect? If time space and distance is such an illusion to spirit and energy, mind is just as much matter as it could be seen as not.

Lets look at dna..

"Deoxyribonucleic acid (/diˌɒksiˌraɪbɵ.njuːˌkleɪ.ɨk ˈæsɪd/ ( listen)), or DNA, is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms, with the exception of some viruses. The main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. DNA is often compared to a set of blueprints, like a recipe or a code, since it contains the instructions needed to construct other components of cells, such as proteins and RNA molecules. The DNA segments that carry this genetic information are called genes, but other DNA sequences have structural purposes, or are involved in regulating the use of this genetic information."

Now lets look at something such as cancer..

"Cancer is a group of diseases characterized by uncontrolled cell division leading to growth of abnormal tissue. It is believed that cancers arise from both genetic and environmental factors that lead to aberrant growth regulation of a stem cell population, or by the dedifferentiation of more mature cell types.

Cell multiplication (proliferation) is a normal physiologic process that occurs in almost all tissues and under many circumstances, such as response to injury, immune responses, or to replace cells that have died or have been shed as a part of their lifecycle (in tissues such as skin or the mucous membranes of the digestive tract). Normally the balance between proliferation and cell death is tightly regulated to ensure the integrity of organs and tissues. Mutations in DNA that lead to cancer appear to disrupt these orderly processes.

The uncontrolled and often rapid proliferation of cells can lead to either a benign tumor or a malignant tumor (cancer). Benign tumors do not spread to other parts of the body or invade other tissues, and they are rarely a threat to life. Malignant tumors can invade other organs, spread to distant locations (metastasize) and become life threatening."

So these cells often lack the right triggers. They lack the right flow.
Out of balance. Clogged. That is part of the cause of cancer, without a doubt.
A lack of the right informations in the right order in which can become susceptible
or vulnerable to other elements depending upon personal behavior and environments
the cancer chooses its place of form, while the underlying cause is throughout, it will
get pulled into a certain physical position to give as much time as possible for
the cells and informations to get back into order leaving least amount of damage
possible to the whole. If we are all one body, why are some of us getting cancer and
others are not? And are the rest of us just as responsible for this sickness these diseases.

"It is believed that cancers arise from both genetic and environmental factors that lead to aberrant growth regulation of a stem cell population, or by the dedifferentiation of more mature cell types."

Divine order.... there IS a divine order.

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

December 14, 2010
6:01 pm
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at1with0
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Dis-ease has a lot to do with many diseases. Stress weakening the coping mechanisms.
Now if stress (or dis ease) can cause the body to malfunction, if you will, then that suggests that possibly, maybe, the mind can influence the body on the DNA level. Some people speculate that some "awakened" (whatever that means) people have 46+2 chromosomes, rather than 46.

"The title references an idea first conceived by Drunvalo Melchizedek concerning the possibility of reaching a state of evolution at which the body would have two more than the normal 46 total chromosomes and leave a currently disharmonious state.[3][4] The premise is that humans would deviate from the current state of human DNA which contains 44 autosomes and 2 sex chromosomes. The next step of evolution would likely result in human DNA being reorganized into 46 and 2 chromosomes, according to Melchizedek.

Furthermore, the song references a wish to experience change through the "shadow"; an idea which represents the parts of one's personality that one hates and fears, which also exists as a recurring theme in the work of Carl Jung.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty_Six_%26_2

"it is easy to grow crazy"

December 14, 2010
9:37 pm
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sandra
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"at1with0" wrote: Dis-ease has a lot to do with many diseases. Stress weakening the coping mechanisms.
Now if stress (or dis ease) can cause the body to malfunction, if you will, then that suggests that possibly, maybe, the mind can influence the body on the DNA level. Some people speculate that some "awakened" (whatever that means) people have 46+2 chromosomes, rather than 46.

Its not a question, maybe in your mind and that is a reflection of your own awareness, but in truth, DNA IS influenced by the mind, but to really get into learning about these things, informations
have to be in a more divine order, of mind, to body and spirit, with heart.
If we are the body and Christ is the head, he holds all keys to these realities, the divine
arrangement of informations in Mind to body to be activated in these natures.....controlling all living organisms, while the ones
that have grown up into a more divine arrangement are like the mature cells regulating the usages of genetic informations. So I suppose if you were a more mature cell type, you wouldn't want to leave the little ones hung up and dry to things such as (dis ease) 🙄
One of these days you are going to get a clue, I just know it. Laugh

“Living backwards!” Alice repeated in great
astonishment. “I never heard of such a thing!”
“—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s
memory works both ways.”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

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