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Atheist group sues over proposed cross at 9/11 memorial
July 29, 2011
8:41 am
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greeney2
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..Atheist group sues over proposed cross at 9/11 memorial
.
.By Liz Goodwin
National Affairs Reporter
.PostsEmailRSS .By Liz Goodwin | The Lookout – 12 hrs ago
....tweet43ShareEmailPrint.....

Part of the Sept. 11 memorial (AP)
The group American Atheists and four New Yorkers are suing the states of New York and New Jersey for planning to place a cross--a piece of debris from the World Trade Center--at the 9-11 memorial for the attacks' victims.

The planned memorial--which will at long last be unveiled this September--has received millions in federal money. The Courthouse News Service says the cross--"a T-joint steel girder found in the rubble of the World Trade Center"--was just last week moved from a Catholic church to Ground Zero. The suit says the cross is an insult to the many 9/11 victims who were not Christian and a violation of the separation of church and state; it proposes either removing the cross or setting aside an equal amount of space at the memorial to honor the sacrifices on non-Christian or non-religious victims of the attack.

Two Jewish plaintiffs said they find the cross "offensive and repugnant to their beliefs." The brother of a first responder who died of lung problems after volunteering at Ground Zero for two weeks is also a plaintiff.

"As a survivor of the 9/11 attack and family member of one of the brave responders to the 9/11 attack, Mark Panzarino is appalled that the state has permitted a symbol of Christianity to represent a tragedy that affected all Americans. The Panzarinos unequivocally do not wish for a cross to represent Frank Joseph Panzarino's sacrifice unless it is a Lutheran Cross," he said in the complaint. (A Lutheran cross features a rose-shaped inlay that, in turn, showcases another crucifix; the plaintiffs evidently singled it out to make the point that any such choice of a Christian symbol excludes someone else's belief.)

Secular-minded advocacy has echoed the gist of the Panzarinos' complaint. "The WTC cross has become a Christian icon. It has been blessed by so-called holy men and presented as a reminder that their god, who couldn't be bothered to stop the Muslim terrorists or prevent 3,000 people from being killed in his name, cared only enough to bestow upon us some rubble that resembles a cross," American Atheists President David Silverman said in a statement. "It's a truly ridiculous assertion."

"We are happy to donate a suitable and respectful display and pay all associated costs, and we won't stand idly by while atheists and their families are discounted. We seek only fairness," Silverman wrote on his blog.

The American Center for Law and Justice, a conservative Christian legal advocacy group, said that it intends to file an amicus brief backing the placement of the cross at the memorial. "This lawsuit is deeply flawed and without merit. This is just the latest chapter of an anti-God strategy employed by atheist organizations across the country--a strategy offensive to millions of Americans, a strategy that we're confident ultimately will fail in court," chief counsel Jay Sekulow said.

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July 29, 2011
5:52 pm
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at1with0
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I don't see why atheists have to get their panties in a bunch over this sort of thing.

Putting a cross at the memorial is a far cry from forced institutionalization of Christianity.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

July 29, 2011
7:50 pm
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greeney2
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Who said there isn't a plan in place to include other religions? I do not believe there is not some plan for inclusion of all religions somehow. They have always said how many countries, cultures and religions were affected on that day. This was a symbol of that day, wasn't this beam sticking out in view, in its form it is now? To fabricate a cross for display is one thing and it would only be right to include all religions, but this was a natural ocurance of the rubble itself, the metal shearing as it collapsed.

July 29, 2011
8:08 pm
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bionic
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they should put up mutiple religious symbols (and whatever the athiest symbol for "have peace and healing" would be)
kind of like with my avater, here

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

July 29, 2011
8:32 pm
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greeney2
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Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of any religion or God in belief, that has no symbol. To eliminate all religious symbols out of all government places, means the only symbols left would favor the Atheists, with no symbols.

Since Atheists believe in no religion nor in God, the absence of any religious symbol would be favoring the Atheists, who have no symbol.

July 30, 2011
3:31 am
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CodeBlackv2
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The US was not attacked for religious reasons on 9/11. It was attacked for political and economic reasons. Religious symbols do not belong at the 9/11 memorial. People do not go to war over religion. They do, however, go to war over economics. Religion is used as a tool to get people to go along with it. It was even used that way by the US in WW-2. I have a collection of WW-2 posters that prove it.

July 30, 2011
9:33 am
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greeney2
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Why don't you start a new subject, with the posters to debate WW2, to see if thats true or not. I think you are completly wrong and I havn't seen them yet, but would love to see what you are talking about.

July 30, 2011
6:02 pm
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greeney2
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I did a little checking and didn't find any posters that were from a religion perspective.

July 30, 2011
10:25 pm
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"greeney2" wrote: Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of any religion or God in belief, that has no symbol. To eliminate all religious symbols out of all government places, means the only symbols left would favor the Atheists, with no symbols.

Since Atheists believe in no religion nor in God, the absence of any religious symbol would be favoring the Atheists, who have no symbol.

Greeny2,

This is not bad in summation by you. It needs to go a bit further but it is not bad at all.

Athiesm is in particular... anti Christian. The part about no symbols is indeed correct. It is also applicable to Christianity in that there are no symbols. Not crosses not fishes et al.

Many Christians have this backwards. Symbols are from paganism...also a religion.

By your description above about the absence of religious symbols would also favor government. To clarify this ..the government does not want any symbols in the hands of the pubic except those that they favor. This is called censorship. Thus meaning that government is more pro Athiest than pro Christian.
And Atheists are, like government, heavily about censorship of others..particularly Christians.

However in contrast to this ..government is also very heavily imbued with symbols...thus meaning it is pagan. The understanding they dont want to be limited by or with is Christianity. For Christianity would hold government to account which is one thing government does not want. Thus they would be more naturally favorable to Athiesm....ie...Ishmaelism...anti god..or as the word breaks down in etymology..

A without..

Theos...god.

Without god ..atheism.

Not much different from anti God.

But the god of government is far removed from Atheism...unbeknownst to most Atheists..and even unbeknownst to most Christians as well.

They will use the Atheists just like they are using Islam for their purposes. And Islam is of Ishmael as well. And Ishmael is anti Issac..meaning Anti Christian...in favor more towards Atheism.

A little confusing to many but think it through ..it fits.

I will disagree with you in one respect..Atheism is definitely a religion. It is the religion of this world..in the flesh..it is Ishmael. It is the Governmet/world position.
It is secular Humanism. And this is a religion. The religion of this world after the god of this world.

What Atheism is in particular..is Anti Christian first...and foremost. Which is exactly the postion of most of the Gnostic religions of this world...of logic and reason. And Gnostic wise men positions of this world is what most governments are following while giving the outward appearance of being tolerant.
Governments are very close to closing the door on tolerance by gnostic wisdom practices and crack down ..not on Islam...but on their own peoples..particularly Christians. They will label them as domestic terrorists first...while giving Islam a free pass.

As I stated in other posts...Islam is much closer to the true government/political positions of Ishmael than is Christianity.

Thanks,
Orangetom

July 31, 2011
1:30 am
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greeney2
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No offence Tom, but you and I are lightyears apart on your logic. Yours is so far out in left field, I don't even see a reason to say anything, other than I think you are completly wrong. You are wrong about the cross, wrong about the government, and your logic is impossible for me to comprehend.

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