August 27, 2010
Or Didn't You Know ? Maybe Billy Never Knew This As Well !
Some Basic Facts About The War Between The States....
* General Robert E. Lee was offered command of the Union Forces but turned the offer down. Lee opposed slavery and secession.
* The 54th Massachusetts was NOT the First African American Unit Formed. Instead the honour goes to the US Coloured Volunteers Made Up Of Freed Slaves from South Carolina. :geek:
* The First Victim Of John Browns raid on Harpers Ferry was a Free Black Man.
* The War Was Not To End Slavery. The War According To Northerners was to preserve the Union. Southerners argue it was States Rights. In fact only 1% of Southerners owned slaves. Cherokee Indians and Free Blacks In The South also owned slaves and fought for the Confederacy.
* The War Was Not Popular In The North As We Are Led To Believe. Many Midwestern States Opposed It, As Well As The Mormons In Deseret who felt both the North and the South were being punished by the Heavenly Father for Slavery and Persecuting Mormons. In Fact Lincoln ordered 12,000 Union Troops to march from California to Utah to keep Brigham Young (Who opposed the War) and the Mormons in the Utah Territory from seceding from the US. A Large number of People in NJ, NYC, and other Northen States actively sympathised with the South.
*Confederate Spies operated largely out of Canada and staged the most northern most raids of the WBTS in St, Albans, VT and Maine..
* Abraham Lincoln was not a very popular President and person during the WBTS. He threw people who opposed the War in prison, suspended habeus corpus, and nearly got the British to enter the War on the side of the South during the Trent Affair.There is now evidence suggesting he was prejudiced against African Americans.
* Nathan Bedford Forrest the Confederate notorious for the Fort Pillow Massacre and the founding of the Ku Klux Klan had Black Bodyguards during and after the War. Although he was a General and bested many Union Commanders in Battle, he never had any formal Military Training. The only Northern General to beat him was a Polish Immigrant.
* There are many accounts of Black Slaves actively defending their Plantations against Shermans Forces when they made the March To the Sea in 1864.
* Ulysses S. Grant's Wife Julia Howe owned slaves.
* Many Canadians fought for both the Union and Confederacy during 1861-65, In fact many Europeans came over and cast their lot with both sides.
* The Infamous Andersonville Prison in Georgia was only operational during a short time during the WBTS.
* The Rebel Flag long associated with the Confederacy was NOT the True Confederate Flag. It is actually the Confederate Naval Jack and/or Battle Flag. The Proper Flag is the Stars and Bars Flag.
Battles of the WBTS States were not confined to just East of the Mississippii. Battles took place in the American Southwest like Glorieta Pass, NM, Arizona, and even the English Channel between the CSS Alabama and USS Kearsarge
Many casualties of the WBTS did not come from bullet wounds. Most came from disease and heat exchaustion.
Interesting SW Ranger,
So you are an observer and reader of history!! Very interesting for one of your tender age.
No offense intended by that remark. By it I mean most of your age are in the "Fast food lane " of life. This precludes any association with history..only consumption rate justifications....ie...emotional instant gratification thinking.
I have read several of your posts and this historical perspective comes amongst most of them. My congratulations for knowing more than a movie/television education. This is a rare thing to observe today. It gives me hope among men that some have more than just emotional justifications.
You got me to musing..to contemplating a book I had read some years back.
It was by a black man..a professor and caused great controversy among blacks as well as other..even among the media pushing the black agenda of those days..some 15 or more years ago.
The book is called...
Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia
Ervin L. Jordan Jr. (Author)
This book caused alot of angst and anger in the black community and particularly amongst their leaders who were looking to consolidate their power and put "Guilt thinking" and values on the rest of us.
What is interesting is that Ervin L. Jordan is a professor at a University of Virginia in Charlottesville and a black man.
Nonetheless his book was not well received by the black community and the left in particular looking for easily emoted votes.
I made note of this controversy and purchased Professor Jordan's book. It was an eye opener because it became obvious that professor Jordan was willing to speak of those things which were true even though they went against the prevailing political winds.
I can admire and respect this.
What you are posting about the American Civil war is the truth of which I have come to learn. Not all is in most of the history books.
I have also read a very interesting book by a man named Ben Ames Williams titled "Mr Secretary." It is about Edwin Stanton and his role as Secretary of War in the American Civil War. Very very telling. This is also a very difficult to find book unless in Xerox copy. I have not found it in most libraries.
More could be said but this is sufficient.
Same thing could be said for WW2 and other conflicts ..past and present. Truth often goes out the window as the first casualty or so many are want to declare.
I am often want myself to ask...If truth is often the first casualty in wars...what is the devout religion in operation such that Truth is the first and constant casualty. Why is this concept and understanding not in the History books. Is there another history taking place. One not known or seen by most of us.
This is the line or tack down which I am often want to search..but in-formations is very difficult by which to come in order to find this trail.
Nonetheless..keep up the good work in history. It will guide you through alot of the PC nonsense going on today and trying to pass for excellence and the moral high ground.
Much of the PC stuff going on does not even make good nonsense to those of us who know some history. It does not take alot of historical knowledge to catch them at their distortions and lies.
Keep up the good work.
August 27, 2010
Thanks OT...I will definitely check out those two books you mention
Another Great Book To Check On is THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT GUIDE TO THE CIVIL WAR.....
Easy to read and flip through. Also gives one useful info in confronting people with misconceptions....
I have ordered that book you mentioned. I need something different to read and defnitely not something todays PC genre or nonsense. My thanks for referring it.
I should tell you that I am located here in the Olde Dominion area of the Chesapeake Bay.
I am about 5 miles north of Fortress Monroe of the civil war fame and where Robert Edward Lee was stationed early in his military career as a Army Engineer. It was he who told the Confederacy not to bother taking the fort as he most definitely knew of the hazards of taking it as well as the particulars of such an endeavour.
Lots of things took place here concerning the civil war as well as in the rest of Olde Virginia. I have been to Appomattox Courthouse. I have been to Petersburg, Cold Harbor, and of course Gettysburg and Sharpsburg up north.
The Peninsula Campaign took place and began right here. As well as the Monitor/CSS Virginia battle.
I should tell you that I work for a large shipyard here on the James River where the engine of the USS Monitor was brought and placed into a dry dock with salt water spraying on it in preservation until the holding tank could be completed up at the Mariners Museum.
It was a humbling moment in my life to stand before that engine and look at such an piece of history before most of the nation got to see it. To wonder about the caliber of the men who one knows worked, sweated, and cursed their way around and maintained it.
LOL LOL..when you have been down in enough engine rooms on ships ..you just know these things!!
As near as I could figure out by the configuration of it..it is some kind of piston engine with a single cylinder which when the engine or piston reaches one side the shaft on the piston trips some kind of lever/clacker ..thus shifting the steam to the other side where the process is completed again and hitting a clacker or lever to port the steam back again.
Very crude by today's standards but state of the art back then.
Also interesting because most of steam back then turned paddle wheels..not propellers.
Nonetheless ..very interesting to see.
Since then the Mariners museum has also received the gun turret and the Dahlgren Guns for preservation along with numerous other pieces of the ship. This shipyard is heavily involved in this museum as well as preservation projects.
I have also seen the CSS Hunley down in Charleston in the holding tank while it is undergoing preservation just like the USS Monitor parts.
Having worked on the 688 class submarines as well as the Virginia's I was eager to see this Confederate Submarine in the tank.
When I saw it ..I was shocked. My initial reaction was....Wow!!!! They went down in this thing????!!!!!
I gotta tell you SW Ranger..I was shocked and unprepared for what I saw.
One thing became immediately obvious...to me. These people of those days had to be of significantly smaller stature than are we of today.
We take our size of today for granted and tend to think it was always this way. Not so and the Civil War was not that far back on a time scale in the recordings of human endeavours. Not that long ago.
Nonetheless..knowing the state of the art today...it is humbling once again to think that these people went out in that thing. Wow!!!
Here is another piece of history which happened one evening between me and a friend on the CB radio as we recounted our days events.
Marvin worked for a air compressor rental company doing maintenance work on the units they rented when these units were out in the field. One day he drove his truck to a construction site where they were tearing down an olde waterfront restaurant. When he arrived to do his maintenance routine on the compressor unit he found the state coroner there with a number of their vehicles. He quickly walked over to a location near the water where he found some plastic sheets covering part of the construction site. They had discovered some bodies when pulling up the restaurant pilings near the shoreline.
So Marvin being the inquisitive type he is...asked if he could look under the plastic. The coroners people said ok but don't touch anything..just look. When Marvin picked up the plastic he too was startled.
"Who were they ..teenagers" he asked. He was startled at how small they were.
"No ...they were fully grown. That is how large the average human was back then." He was told by the coroners people.
"Back then...when was back then??"
"As near as we can tell these graves go back to the late 1600s or early 1700s. This appears to be a family graveyard but the shoreline since back then has eroded back." they told him.
We are just waiting for the state people to advise us to dig them up or just leave them here where they lie.
Of course Marvin was... like me ..somewhat speechless when staring history in the face.
His conversation broke right down in the face of what he was realizing and also realizing what he did not know.
This came across clearly when he recounted his daily events to me across the CB radio.
I have never forgotten this conversation with Marvin and to this very day.
What is also of great interest is to realize that the "States Rights" issue is not dead in this nation when one sees the Media trying to downplay this and disort or redirect the tenor of it into something it is not.
I realized this when I began to hear some tremors of discontent between some of the states back in the 1980s. It has blossomed here in the late 1990s and into the 2000s with a sharp increase in the Federal Government overmanaging the states and what they want them to do to tow the government line. The States are tiring of this arrangement.
I look for the day when the States enforce Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution on the US Government to keep the government out of State business.
Arizona as well as several other states are showing their contempt for heavy handed Federal interference in their state affairs.
States Rights is not a dead issue. In a similar related vein Federal Fiscal Mismanagement is a definite State concern...as well as an Ameican concern.
Take care as well SW Ranger,
Thanks for the book reference,
Keep up the good work,
April 9, 2009
It's state rights that make the US unique.
It is the uniqueness of each state that gives the USA it's character and it's ability to adapt
If the federal government just ook over..it would streamline the states..innovation/adaptability..these things would suffer greatly
These are the very qualities needed for a nation to survive longterm
Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
August 27, 2010
OT: I belong to the Robert E. Lee Civil War Round Table here in Woodbridge, NJ. We hold monthly meetings.
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I've been to Glorieta Pass, Gettysburg, Sharpsburg, Harpers Ferry, Manassas, Fredericksburg, St Albans, VT, and Richmond.
Loved the Museum of the Confederacy and their no apologies attitude towards the exhibits....
My favourite WBTS Personalities are Jefferson Davis, U.S. Grant, John Singleton Mosby, Robert E. Lee, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and Belle Boyd
My favourite movies about the WBTS are GETTYSBURG, GODS AND GENERALS, GLORY, THE HORSE SOLDIERS, THE GREAT LOCOMOTIVE CHASE, AND THE GENERAL with Buster Keaton. THE RAID with Van Heflin and Lee Marvin is also good.
Thanks for your input and various insights
April 9, 2009
Yes history is indeed a great tool, even that which has been scrubbed from the public source can be found as useful by those who care enough to read and look for it. There are more than a few people who believe that the United States actually came into being post Civil War, or at it's conclusion, not some 100 years give or take earlier.
There are some great sources available to those who are interested:
Tom.........I can truly appreciate what you say when you mention the difficulty in finding some of the reference books that were once common knowledge---------some are now only available at yard sales, or left for pickers to find in someone's attic.
Anyway a great deal of recent American and World History has also fallen to the editors employed by the PTB.......But some simply refuse to believe it.
If I may...............here are the original articles of war as declared by Lincoln, Apr 24 1863.
Or as close as one is to read and believe.............hope you find them as interesting as I do...much of what is carried out today has been taken from these articles and transcribed into the society of today when it comes to war.
Art # 156 and # 157 are of special interest............
Common justice and plain expediency require that the military commander protect the manifestly loyal citizens, in revolted territories, against the hardships of the war as much as the common misfortune of all war admits.
The commander will throw the burden of the war, as much as lies within his power, on the disloyal citizens, of the revolted portion or province, subjecting them to a stricter police than the noncombatant enemies have to suffer in regular war; and if he deems it appropriate, or if his government demands of him that every citizen shall, by an oath of allegiance, or by some other manifest act, declare his fidelity to the legitimate government, he may expel, transfer, imprison, or fine the revolted citizens who refuse to pledge themselves anew as citizens obedient to the law and loyal to the government.
Whether it is expedient to do so, and whether reliance can be placed upon such oaths, the commander or his government have the right to decide.
Armed or unarmed resistance by citizens of the United States against the lawful movements of their troops is levying war against the United States, and is therefore treason.
Just my 2 cents...
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century ... .asp#sec10
PS. When I was in High School I had a classmate who lived next door to an old man who's Father actually fought in the Civil War. If I'm not mistaken ( may well be ) he was one of a very few left alive who had an actual family member who had fought in that conflict.
August 27, 2010
OT: Glad to hear it, enjoy your reading !
Also another great WBTS Movie is MAJOR DUNDEE with Charlton Heston and Richard Harris....
One last note, I made a mistake about the first African American Union Unit. It was actually the 1ST KANSAS COLORED VOLUNTEERS Founded in Early 1862
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