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STudents dropping out after given grants for school
October 11, 2010
8:44 am
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greeney2
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We have a lot of talk about unfairness to employees, lay offs, forclosures, and the fact employers are unfair to employees. Here is a good example of lack of committment when so many take federal Pell grants and drop out. They take advantage of grant programs, scolorships and student loans, and never goto their 2nd year. What happened to the money, and what happened to the committment? The same lack of committment, is maybe why they end up the ones layed off, or end up the ones who don't pay thier home loans, while the also max out credit of other forms. Not paying off loans, and fulfilling a pledge to make good with the grants for thousands of dollars, may be the same reason you never see these people down at the home depot, trying to get day work. They are there for the handouts, but never there to repay it, work, or pay other bills. Unfortunatly they ruin these programs for the really serious students.

I'm pretty shocked the statistics on this are so large.

California spent nearly half a billion on college freshmen who later dropped out, study finds
The state spent about $466 million — more than any other state — on students at public colleges who did not return for their sophomore year.
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By Carla Rivera, Los Angeles Times

October 11, 2010
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At a time when California's public colleges are battling to maintain state funding, a report says that over a five-year period, the state spent nearly half a billion dollars to educate first-year college students who dropped out before their sophomore year.

The report found that California ranked first in the nation in the amount of taxpayer funds — $467 million — spent on students at four-year colleges who failed to return for a second year. Texas, with $441 million, and New York, with $403 million, ranked second and third.

The study, prepared by the Washington-based American Institutes for Research, analyzed federal data on retention rates at hundreds of four-year colleges and universities and states' education funding between 2003 and 2008.

Nationally, about 30% of first-year students do not return for a second year. At California public colleges, the dropout rate is about half that.

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Overall, states sent $6.2 billion in general funds and $1.4 billion in grants to colleges and universities for first-year students who did not return, according to the study. The federal government issued an additional $1.5 billion in grants to those students.

The federal data do not track students who complete their studies at other institutions, said study author Mark Schneider. But other federal measures indicate that most dropouts do not return.

"There are taxpayer dollars, large amounts of money going out the door to students who are not coming back the next year," Schneider said in an interview. "In the K-12 world, we are saying schools are responsible for the success of students. In higher education, we haven't done that yet and we need to."

At California public colleges, first-year dropouts accounted for about $466 million in state funding in the five years studied. Federal grants to those students totaled almost $61 million.

California Supt. of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell agreed that colleges and universities could operate more efficiently in moving students toward graduation. But he said state-imposed budget cuts that have slashed classes, increased student fees and reduced staff are more of a hindrance.

"My impression is that we need to make a greater investment in higher education" he said. "Too many students are being forced to take on a second or third job. The lack of adequate college funding has led to fewer classes being offered, which extends the number of years it takes to finish."

But O'Connell said the study raised important policy issues.

"The fact that we have these numbers helps with accountability and transparency," he said. "We should do exit interviews with students and learn why they leave education."

October 11, 2010
3:50 pm
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Aquarian
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This is the crux of the issue:

"My impression is that we need to make a greater investment in higher education" he said. "Too many students are being forced to take on a second or third job. The lack of adequate college funding has led to fewer classes being offered, which extends the number of years it takes to finish."

To suggest that the majority of these students drop out willingly is pretty far-fetched, I think.

The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

October 11, 2010
7:03 pm
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greeney2
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Your answer to this is to provide more aid and more assistance to these people? You work in the educational field, are you telling me that there isn't a very large number of both graduates and those who drop out, who never pay back a dime on student loans. My sister has a very specialized trade as a CPA. She does federal audits on trade schools to assure they have not violatede the law, getting perspective students both Pell Grants and student loans. They get the money which the student thinks, "Oh boy a free ride", and instead of studying, its party time. They do this to be paid in full up front for the school, and get the student in without out of pocket money. They also know the drop out rates, and know if they drop out and owe, they get zero. What happens when they drop out? Pells Grants, as you know Aquarian are based on the student completing the course of studies, if they do not the Grant is supose to be paid back. Everyone wants to get that free money like a grant, and student loans are free money for now, but they are out of sight and out of mind until later. When they drop out, and have no job a few years later, those loans never get paid off, and they are unsecured loans.

As someone in the educational field Aquarian, you can not tell me these programs have tightened up for the serious student, due to those who took advantage and flaked out on them.

October 12, 2010
2:44 pm
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_Billy_
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I have a friend who's son got a goverment educational grant and bought a car with it. It seems there would be some type of control.

"Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez" Let the Good Times Roll

October 12, 2010
9:43 pm
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frrostedman
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"_Billy_" wrote: I have a friend who's son got a goverment educational grant and bought a car with it. It seems there would be some type of control.

No control needed. See aquarian's solution. Send the kid another check. A bigger one that he'll find more difficulty spending so fast on something else.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

October 13, 2010
3:22 am
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Aquarian
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Greeney, I understand the frustration from the taxpayer's point of view, but I think the issue is far larger than what you suggest. Currently, there is a crisis affecting the public education system in the US; aside from propagating "default thinking", there's a war against teachers (constant layoffs) and public budgets as cities and states attempt to "deal" with this economic crisis. Students, however, bear no responsibility for this crisis; yet, they are the ones being dealt with all the negative ramifications of "dealing" with it. There was a also a documentary that revealed that universities push "error costs" to student tuition whenever there is an "error" administrative expense. Also, the cost of living keeps increasing and tuition hikes are twofold the cost of living per semester, while grants/scholarship money remains the same, or in some cases, decrease (as another way to slash public budgets). I think it goes both ways when it comes to this. I do see students spend their financial aid money on necessary things too; like buying a car to get from work to school to home (if they commute; which constitutes 80% of all students in U.S. universities), food expenses (for students who live independently from parents), books, and sure, there are occasions where there is surplus financial aid money left over. There is nothing wrong to use it once in a while, whether its for a Pumpkin Smash smoothie at Jamba Juice or a $150 Express t-shirt.

The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

October 13, 2010
3:23 am
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Aquarian
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"frrostedman" wrote: [quote="_Billy_"]I have a friend who's son got a goverment educational grant and bought a car with it. It seems there would be some type of control.

No control needed. See aquarian's solution. Send the kid another check. A bigger one that he'll find more difficulty spending so fast on something else.

No controls whatsoever.

If we really want to fix this issue, college tuition should be FREE.

The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

October 13, 2010
7:20 am
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frrostedman
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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I forgot.

Everything is a right, not a privilege. Healthcare, higher education, a well-paying job, a big fat pension... all these things are basic human rights.

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man. - Albert Einstein

October 13, 2010
3:14 pm
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Aquarian
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You probably say it like that because you have all those things, and if you don't, you've positioned yourself with an argument for self-oppression.

The Few assume to be the deputies, but they are often only the despoilers of the Many.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

October 13, 2010
4:13 pm
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_Billy_
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Your argument is for Communism.

"Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez" Let the Good Times Roll

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