simple question on gun control | Page 2 | General Discussion Topics | Forum

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
simple question on gun control
May 14, 2013
4:47 am
Avatar
at1with0
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9243
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"capricorn" wrote: In regards to guns, the benefit is allowing We The People to maintain the balance of power with government; as well as personal protection

Doing so is risky.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

May 14, 2013
5:17 am
Avatar
Wing-Zero
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3278
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"at1with0" wrote: [quote="capricorn"]In regards to guns, the benefit is allowing We The People to maintain the balance of power with government; as well as personal protection

Doing so is risky.

Allowing people to speak freely on the internet is risky.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

May 14, 2013
5:24 am
Avatar
at1with0
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9243
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"Wing-Zero" wrote: [quote="at1with0"][quote="capricorn"]In regards to guns, the benefit is allowing We The People to maintain the balance of power with government; as well as personal protection

Doing so is risky.

Allowing people to speak freely on the internet is risky.

Indeed.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

May 14, 2013
4:05 pm
Avatar
capricorn
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 722
Member Since:
July 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Right to bear arms not being infringed

Pros:

  1. Insurance for a society's Freedom (see the second amendment to the constitution: "necessary to the security of a free state") http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution ... _amendment[/*]
  2. Protection from the rise of Tyrannical Government (ie. Balance of Power)[/*]
  3. Personal Protection from Criminals[/*]
  4. Discourages Criminal Activity. (Criminals less likely to commit crime if they suspect they may turn from predator to prey.)[/*]
  5. Prevents Hundreds of Millions of deaths due to Gov't tyranny (see Mao, Stalin, Hitler/ see Democide http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP1.HTM)[/*]
  6. More Guns = Less Crime (See crime rates of societies with more vs less guns: http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2 ... s-plummet/)[/*]
  7. Sport and Competition[/*]

Cons:

  1. Ease of access to guns for criminals[/*]
  2. Gun accidents[/*]
  3. 30,000 a year die from gun related incidents (see gun violence in the USA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violen ... ted_States[/*]

Feel free to add to the list.

"a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people."

May 14, 2013
9:33 pm
Avatar
at1with0
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9243
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well let's try not weighing out pros and cons, let's decide from reasoning about first principles. Tell me why should the random American be allowed to possess firearms?

One major issue would be the process of taking people's guns. Like converting to a new political system, the new political system might be better for most people but the transitioning to the new state is what becomes the major obstacle.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

May 14, 2013
9:57 pm
Avatar
capricorn
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 722
Member Since:
July 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"at1with0" wrote: Well let's try not weighing out pros and cons, let's decide from reasoning about first principles. Tell me why should the random American be allowed to possess firearms?

For the reasons I have outlined above under "Pros"

"at1with0" wrote: One major issue would be the process of taking people's guns. Like converting to a new political system, the new political system might be better for most people but the transitioning to the new state is what becomes the major obstacle.

I couldn't answer your question because I don't agree with your premise. What desirable political system would warrant the mandatory confiscation of guns? Humans innately have moral issues (and our fore fathers knew this) so I couldn't agree that the confiscation of guns would bring about any utopia. In fact, history tells us only the opposite has happened.

What do you do when a political system, which was meant to keep guns out of criminals arms, is eventually controlled by criminals? Will the criminals not make laws to place guns in their hand and not the peoples? Are not the laws being crafted by Senator Feinstien and Joe Biden meant to keep guns out of the peoples hands but at the same time exempt themselves??

"a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people."

May 14, 2013
10:07 pm
Avatar
at1with0
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9243
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But you agree that guns should only be purchasable by certain people, right?

"it is easy to grow crazy"

May 14, 2013
10:40 pm
Avatar
greeney2
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 10239
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

How many people are killed by Drunk Drivers every year? what is your plan for that, to make it a foolproof society? Take away all the cars, or all the booze? And yet millions of millions of people regulate their alcohol intake and driving and never have a issue. Sounds like people who are responsible with guns. Key word is responsible, which we assume in a free society.

I have no protection from the irresponsible drunk running a red light when I go to the store for 5 minutes, but I can regulate my usage and be responsible myself. I do have protection for someone invading my home in the middle of the night, and use it responsibly. Why would you advocate taking that away, with no way of disarming the bad guys?

The issue is a society that has irresponsible folks of all kinds, and advocating making all the responsible people continue to pay for them.

May 14, 2013
11:43 pm
Avatar
at1with0
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9243
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"greeney2" wrote: How many people are killed by Drunk Drivers every year? what is your plan for that, to make it a foolproof society? Take away all the cars, or all the booze? And yet millions of millions of people regulate their alcohol intake and driving and never have a issue. Sounds like people who are responsible with guns. Key word is responsible, which we assume in a free society.

I have no protection from the irresponsible drunk running a red light when I go to the store for 5 minutes, but I can regulate my usage and be responsible myself. I do have protection for someone invading my home in the middle of the night, and use it responsibly. Why would you advocate taking that away, with no way of disarming the bad guys?

The issue is a society that has irresponsible folks of all kinds, and advocating making all the responsible people continue to pay for them.

Perhaps the simplest solution to government is abolishing it and use an intelligent form of anarchy.

"it is easy to grow crazy"

May 15, 2013
2:36 am
Avatar
capricorn
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 722
Member Since:
July 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"at1with0" wrote: But you agree that guns should only be purchasable by certain people, right?

Yes, those who are in jail shouldn't be able to purchase guns.

"a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people."

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 288

Currently Online:
60 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

greeney2: 10239

bionic: 9870

Lashmar: 5289

tigger: 4576

rath: 4297

DIss0n80r: 4161

sandra: 3858

frrostedman: 3815

Wing-Zero: 3278

Tairaa: 2842

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 24149

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 31

Topics: 8737

Posts: 123508

Newest Members:

taylor wayne, ieltlucky, elie50021, Daveburton, Trent, neil zhang, Lynn, Joe1821, Jenny C, Cassandra

Administrators: John Greenewald: 585, blackvault: 1776