Let's have an open discussion about socialism | General Discussion Topics | Forum

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Let's have an open discussion about socialism
September 25, 2017
2:44 am
Avatar
Nesaie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1452
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Socialism doesn't work.  In my state, they're proposing higher property taxes for "schools".  What people may not understand is that if you're renting, your landlord will increase your rent.  If you try to go do local markets for food, those farmers have a lot of land.  They have to pass that cost of a property tax on to you as well.  

So, all who are asking for more, because you can't provide?  Property tax is never the solution.  You'll get less food for your food stamps...And, your rent is gonna go up.

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

September 25, 2017
10:32 am
Avatar
greeney2
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 10184
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You also live in a state I think was a strong Bernie Sanders state, correct me if I'm wrong.  I may also be wrong but many of the millennials and young people are strong supporters of a socialist based concept. I guess on the surface its one of those things they say sounds good on paper, but doesn't work so well in practice.  In hard pressed states, like in the north west, a lot more emphasis is on many social programs. People do need social programs for legitimate reasons, no available jobs, natural disasters, etc.  

In my state California our property taxes, the biggest portion goes to schools, and the junior college system, probably 60-70%, the rest goes to other county services, that everyone uses.  Everyone pays for the schools, not matter it you have 0 kids or 12 kids, you all pay for schools. Also in the school budget we are required to allow undocumented children, no questions asked, and we pay for their education, you probably do the same thing. And this applies to all these other services paid by your property taxes.  The nicer your home the more you pay, it is by your home assessment with no consideration to how many people or kids are in a household, and nowadays 2 or more families, may live in one taxed dwelling. So there is a lot of unfairness to the property tax system. A lot of unfairness to assessments and values year to year. Real estate crashed right after my daughter bought a new home 10 years ago, it took a lot of red tape to re access her value.

I'm older now, our kids are grown and gone, I have no kids to educate, yet, we still pay to educate every kid in the system.  The worst part, due to forced busing when my kids where little, we sent them to Christian private schools, from preschool - 12th grade, and we still had to pay for the public schools. We got zero in county credits, and they do not even have to give a single book or supply to private school, that were allocated had my kids gone to public school.  Even it they were required to lend the books to the private schools, which we were taxed for. If its a social program, why were my kids never included, and yes it pisses me off to get NOTHING, paid a fortune for 12+ years times 2 kids tuitions, while our taxes paid for illegals. And you get branded as a racist if you complain.  

You are right socialism does not work, and why Bernie got rejected, because who has their hands in the cookie jar?  And when they find one cookie jar they find several of them. Social programs are needed and I do not begrudge them, but social programs are not intended to provide a permanent free ride off everyone else, short of true conditions, illnesses, or disabilities.  When you go to your emergency room, and get billed for $1000 for 5 stitches, and a sign is hanging up that says "If you are unable to pay---", illegals that never pay a dime, broke our emergency rooms, who is paying? Canada has socialized medicine, but read about those who "wait to death" for an operation, so they come to the USA for it. 

If you own a home you pay taxes, and it covers all your minor kids in it for schools other services. but we live in an age where kids are over 18 and end up living at home til 30, have no rent and do not pay a dime into the system. They end up with student aid only to use it for a car or party time, and are parasites on the system. Many end up with kids, living at home and on welfare forever, we all pay for, so they end up several kids later, while deadbeat Dads never give a dime.  The welfare gravy train, never leaving parents, or grandparents homes, becomes a way of life. How many people are on permanent housing aid and welfare programs, and they do not want to work because it will make them not qualify for these things.  

Socialism sounds great on paper, until all those taking advantage just ruin what it is intended for.  Good subject, I'm sure I wondered off the school part of it a bit. 

September 25, 2017
10:46 am
Avatar
greeney2
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 10184
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here is a good example of unfair property tax and how it affects what is a social program ou school system.

You live in a house, zoned for "single family dwelling", you assessment should reflect normal numbers of people. Husband, Wife, 1 or 2 kids. usually fit into a 2-3 bedroom 1-2 bath house. A 2 bedroom apartment usually 1 bath, might have 1 kid, so they apportion taxes per unit with expected numbers of occupants. 

The term "single family dwelling", or "Multiple family" dwellings allows the county to project numbers who may use things like schools.

Nowadays, due to economy, these single family homes, now have adult kids who have children, and they are forced to move into Mom and Dads home, so now you have an unbalanced system, where that 2nd family in a dwelling are not accounted for tax wise, but are benefiting from it. Like I said in my other post, kids that live at home until they are 30 do not contribute, they get a free ride.  

September 25, 2017
4:14 pm
Avatar
Nesaie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1452
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm with you all the way.  I never had kids and even renting properties, I still pay for more in property taxes.  Yes WA was a big Bernie state.  With all the talk of trying to join Canada when he lost.

One of the things that ticks me off is that teacher's salaries and such used to be voted on a local level and paid locally.  That is why my parents moved where they did, so we were in a good school district.  People expected to pay more for nice houses and good schools.  That is why they live there.  Now, its a state wide thing.  So, if you live in a good area, pay more in taxes, you're paying for the low cost area schools too.  So money from people who live in Redmond in a house that is a million dollars is paying for rural schools where the houses are a lot cheaper.

Seattle did the busing thing in schools too.  They'd take the white kids and bus them to the black schools and vice versa.  This is why my father wouldn't raise us in the city limits.  They ended that practice a long time ago.  It didn't work.

A friend of mine visited LA a month back.  He told me about the illegals who would cook hot dogs with bacon and sell them illegally on the streets.  He was warned to never eat them.  I responded that they were using their food stamps to buy that and sell it back to people.

I have a libertarian view of illegals.  I don't mind them coming in, but don't house them, don't give them food stamps, don't give them any form of welfare.  And, speak ENGLISH.  If you need an interpreter when you go to court, you pay for it.  I've been to traffic court before.  If someone needs an interpreter, they get in and out first.  The state pays for the interpreter, time is money.  I suspect many of them don't need an interpreter and just say they do so they can go first.  And I'm tired of being asked what language I want at the ATM or on a phone.  And, if you're going to do customer service, I have to be able to understand you when I call.  I had to call a customer service center a few times just to find a person without a really thick Mexican accent.

I've also heard that in CA if you don't speak Mexican, you can't get a job in a fast food restaurant.  Is that true?

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

September 25, 2017
4:57 pm
Avatar
Nesaie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1452
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just to add about the health care in Canada...I watch Canadian news up here.  They're constantly talking about the shortages of nurses, doctors, and hospital beds.  Not to mention, their taxes are outrageous.  Some Canadian nurses commute down to Bellingham to work for more money than in Canada.

It's also very expensive just to rent a place in Vancouver BC.  Students trying to go to college there can't find housing and if they do, It might be nothing more than a box, literally.  They can thank their social programs for that one.

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

September 26, 2017
3:05 am
Avatar
Nesaie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1452
Member Since:
April 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Do you remember the story of The Little Red Hen?  That is basically what is wrong with socialism in a nutshell.  That is one of the first stories I learned to read as a young kid.  Here is a link: http://storyberries.com/little-red-hen/

So the little red hen finds a wheat seed.  She asks for help to plant and take care of the seed.  No one will help her.  She cares for her chicks and this wheat.  Nobody to help.  When it comes time to process the wheat, no one will help.  Time to make the wheat into bread, no one will help.  When it comes to eat?  Everyone wants to help, but nah, like with everything else, she will do it herself.  That's the cliff's notes version.

Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen... - Zbigniew Brezhinsky

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 288

Currently Online: shevtchyk1980mZX, Jamie
63 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

greeney2: 10184

bionic: 9870

at1with0: 9243

Lashmar: 5289

tigger: 4576

rath: 4297

DIss0n80r: 4161

sandra: 3858

frrostedman: 3815

Wing-Zero: 3278

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 23756

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 32

Topics: 8596

Posts: 122915

Newest Members:

Andrew Hotchkiss, Em, davejiker, PM ME UR NIGHT SKY, Victorious, StarShip4peace, fatima, Nathan Fountaine, mike, noteventhere

Administrators: John Greenewald: 525, blackvault: 1777