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Indians
October 18, 2011
11:23 pm
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Cole_Trickle
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The American Indian, to me, is one of the most interesting issues of all United States history, it's also one of the saddest. The real history, the true history, is something very very few people of today have any real knowledge of. I find that insulting.

Why the need to massage in an effort to appease, is something I simply have always hated as an American. Just tell the damn truth, just teach it in schools, just allow people to learn as they wish, not as you wish. It should be free and not be available to only those who can afford Harvard or Yale.

This Government is good at swaying opinion, always has been. It's why Hollywood will never die, and why shows like The History channel, Time life, Discovery, and Nat Geo exist.

If I was to ask this question:

Who defeated the Indians? I'd be willing to bet that without the aid of Google----------just based on knowledge from the tops of your heads-----that-----less than 1 of every 1,000 interested would have any real clue at all.

Several great books have been written about the Native Americans------------The latest by a PHD from Texas... I think Hollywood did an adaptation based on some surface history in regard to the same tribe-------covered in the book. Currently reading it-----------will post when time permits.

Cole

I'll give you a hint-------------It wasn't the US Military/Calvary--

October 19, 2011
1:57 pm
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Cole_Trickle
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Anyone ever find any arrowheads or artifacts laying around?

The drought in Texas dried up some lakes, even some large bodies of water. This exposed some Indian artifacts, some burial ground stuff. As usual some people descended upon these sites and started collecting artifacts-----------there were arrested.

Does anyone find that sort of thing ironic?

Killing them off wasn't enough! Yet it's been said before " To the victor go the spoils "

Cole

October 20, 2011
12:39 am
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Wing-Zero
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The Wetlands around my area have always been believed to be hunting grounds for Natives that were around at one time, and I remember seeing something about a tribe being located in what present-day Costa Mesa is (you wouldn't know, but people from SoCal might).

I go there from time to time and look around. Not for anything particular, just stuff out of the ordinary. I hear tales from other folks that they know a guy who knows a guy that found some neat stuff, but we know how those stories usually go.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

October 20, 2011
2:55 am
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thunder
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i have hundreds of them, cole-trickle, have hunted them since i was a kid. hunt close to rivers and plowed fields in the spring. would NEVER touch a buriel ground!!

October 20, 2011
3:55 am
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greeney2
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California is rich with the history of Native Americans. Little know fact about where I worked. Rocketdyne had its test facility in the Santa Susana Mountians, You all know this area very well, becasue it is a stones throw from several of the old movie ranches. Our back road up from Simi Valley turns off about 1/2 mile from Corriganville, where they filmed Rin Tin Tin, Ft. Apache, Lone Rangers, probably 50% of the old westerns you ever saw. Our rocket testing facility was aquired in the 40's after WW2 about 2000 acres in the remote hills. Back than testing rockets in the 50's and 60's happened almost daily. Roy Rogers and Dale Evens had a ranch very close to it. I was always a member of the Rocketdyne rock, gem and mineral society, and found out the hill facility had many caves with Native American petroglifs. They keep them well protected, and you could not just go into them. Even our club, was not allowed in them, without a major channel of going through security, limited numbers, and strick supervision by the company. Because the test facility was well guarded, they never got picked over and damaged. I actually never got to see them, the hill was declining in later years, so seeing the caves became nearly impossible to get appointments for. Rocketdyne recently gave 1700 of those acres to the State, after enviormental clean up, and NASA owns the remaining 300 acres. I'm not sure which parcel had the caves. Eventually the state is going to turn the land into a wildlife area and recreation park.
California has many of these kinds of places, like Wing is referring to. They have found indian burial grounds in Encino during a building project, that shut it down. Encino is a area of well to do people, movie stars, etc. These grounds were probably only a few blocks down Ventura Blvd, from where Michaeal Jacksons home was, among many many others.

October 20, 2011
1:22 pm
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Cole_Trickle
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"thunder" wrote: i have hundreds of them, cole-trickle, have hunted them since i was a kid. hunt close to rivers and plowed fields in the spring. would NEVER touch a buriel ground!!

Yep, knowing where you live, having a nice collection was probably a fairly easy task, not to mention lots of fun.

I have one quality arrowhead and it was given to me, lol. I was always playing sports of some sort in my youth,then lost in life as an adult. I'd love to take and teach my kids how to hunt them, how to find them. They're basically everywhere if one knows where to look and how to look--Mostly like you say in spring after a good rain is a great time to search.

It's amazing how sharp mine is, I mean it's 150 years old and still sharp as hell, scary sharp.

Cole

October 20, 2011
6:33 pm
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greeney2
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Hold your arrowheads up to a bright lite and see if its tranlusant and shows light through it. Many that are black would have been made from Obsidian, which is volcanic glass. You can see through many of the hard rocks like this or agates, and they are high up the mohs scale of hardness, 8 or 9s, 10 being diamond and highest. Obsidian can be made so sharp it has been used in making surgical scalpels. Native Americans must have gotten very proficient at not only finding the right material to begin with, but chipping it to shape, and making the tools to do it with. Imagine the art and how long it took to make just one arrow. If you ever got into rock hounding, many of these stones just look like dirty old rocks sitting on the ground, but when you tumble them its amazing what colors are under the shabby surface. Tumbling obsidian was very difficult becasue being a glass kind of stone, you can ruin an entire batch on the final polishing stage. They require a cushioning agent like walnut shells, and left too long, turn out like the bottom of an old coke bottle. The hard materials that were good for arrowheads yield some of the most colorful and beautiful colors in tumbled rocks. You never find arrowheads that are plain grey granite, they are usually the hard colorful stones. The learning curve to shaping arrowheads must have taken a lot of practice, becasue at any chipping it can fracture and break.

October 21, 2011
2:05 am
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thunder
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mine are made of native chert here in missouri, have a fraim of quartz points as well as a fiew frames from colorado. most of them u can see through,still trying to find that elusive sloted clovis point. my faverites are the dalton points have many of them. sold 3 daltons in colorado for 1800, LORD had no idea thay were woth that much! have a frame of obsisian points to greeny. sharp is just not the word for them lol, basicly handle with care.
cole the best time is during or after a rain. ise a broom stick with a nail in the end. dont have to stoop over all the time when its just a flake (spald) sure saves the back, the south facing caves and south side of rivers is always the best. seemed to camp there more.

October 21, 2011
4:16 am
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greeney2
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A few people I worked with were Native Americans, I think a very small percentage but the were active in thier organizations, held annual pow wows. They were very sensitive to people gathering things like this. Another club member use to go diving off the channel islands, and he found under the water, and native american mortar and pestle. They were pretty outraged that he kept it claiming it was like burial ground kind of thing. I think the way they handled it, created too much friction, so he wasn't willing to be intimidated, and kept it. Maybe someday it will end up in a museum, but some things are probably much more common than we think. The arrowheads are probably a good example of many that are common, and many like you had that are very rare. People really into tourquise, know how to tell types, and know the patterns so well, they know what mines they come out of. Hard to find real pawn jewelery now, the kind handmade out of coin silver.

October 21, 2011
12:06 pm
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bionic
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The casinos seem to be helping the NA's both make some much needed money and get some revenge on whitie.
arrow heads are cool.

also, on a totally unrelated note..
Cole saw this and thought of you
😎

Willie Wonka quotes..
What is this Wonka, some kind of funhouse?
Why? Are you having fun?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams

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